[merged] Price increase

[Ignition]

Some do, some don't - they don't moan like hell as soon as their 3Mbit service slows down to only 2 - 2.5Mbit or less during peak times, some of them are unhappy as they get a fraction of what they pay for, some of them are ecstatic as they get their full bandwidth all the time (you know that thing the UK expects and completely takes for granted - no apparent contention).

3Mbit is generally not the standard service - there are some exceptionally quick services that we don't have here, but few places where 3Mbit is standard rather than a premium product, don't believe all the hype.

[Defiant]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherN00b

Some do, some don't - they don't moan like hell as soon as their 3Mbit service slows down to only 2 - 2.5Mbit or less during peak times, some of them are unhappy as they get a fraction of what they pay for, some of them are ecstatic as they get their full bandwidth all the time (you know that thing the UK expects and completely takes for granted - no apparent contention).

3Mbit is generally not the standard service - there are some exceptionally quick services that we don't have here, but few places where 3Mbit is standard rather than a premium product, don't believe all the hype.

Not what I've been told by my Dutch and Belgium friends

[zovat]

Just to bring this into perspective : Telewest have recently announced a free 50% upgrade on all services : Their new price list is :

Originally Posted by Blueyonder.co.uk

* blueyonder broadband 750Kb The standard blueyonder broadband service has increased in speed from 512Kb to 750Kb, but still costs from only £25 per month (£27.99 if no other Telewest service is taken).



* blueyonder broadband 1.5Mb The faster 1Mb service has also got a 50 per cent bandwidth boost to 1.5Mb, for the existing price of £35 per month (£37.99 if no other Telewest service is taken).



* blueyonder broadband 3Mb The flagship 2Mb service has now become the UK's first residential 3Mb cable service, offering speeds up to 60 times faster than dial-up access, from £50 a month (£52.99 if no other Telewest service is taken).

Hmmm 1.5 for 37.99 with no other service. of 35 with - Shame the two aren't competing....

(although 3M for £50 is not quite so tempting)

To tie the ends on my rant, I have dropped down a tier, also cancelled some of the tv channels.

Final point, the increase in speed from 1 to 1.5 mb is being at extra cost, the increases come in june, but the actual speed is somewhere in the future.
With the interest NTL will make on the £3 per month times the amount of subscribers taking 1mb bb, I find this a good move by NTL, until people realise they are being fleeced and take action.
The only ones coming out better out of the new prices in june are the ones on the lower two tiers, because they are not being asked for an increase, and when NTL do get their backsides into gear, they will get another bonus, a speed increase for no additional cost.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherN00b

Not interested in being involved in this argument but just to point out 1Mbit users in no way subsidise other packages, quite the opposite in fact they are the least profitable of the tiers.

The argument that they subsidise the other tiers is based on all 1Mbit users sticking to 30GB a month - the vast majority don't, some pull 250GB or more. Add that to the extra congestion caused on the upstream path from the 1Mbit users with 256k uploads and it soon becomes clear that they are the least profitable tier, they pay the lowest rate per kbit of the tiers both now and in the future after the price increases etc while downloading markedly more than the other tiers.



Well not really, just giving you the facts to be honest, whether you want to believe me and anyone else who tells you this or not is entirely up to you, but the above are the incontrovertible facts.

Place your calculations that show that 1mb users are the least profitable.
Dont blame 1mb users who only take what they are entitled to, get on to NTL and get them to increase capacity.
The fact is NTL touted an unlimited product, this is not only my opinion.
If your gripe is that some pull more than 30gb per month, what are NTL doing about it?
Sending out letters means jack **** imo, unless they back it up with a court case.
Will they do that? no.
Why? because the trading standards may have something to say on the matter.

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

It is plain to see that 1mb users are being fleeced, maybe the ones who cannot or will not see this are either, a: NTL employees, or b; People with the sod you jack I am alright outlook on life.
I was on 1 mb broadband, NTL are forcing me to pay an extra £3 per month extra if I wanted to keep that speed, with the mention of an increase in speed at a later day, but that could be next year, and what is to say I want 1.5 mb?

Which of your two choice do you class me as ?

Ok, let me answer that for you - since I'm not an employee I must be the "sod you" category ..... except I'm not - but I am insulted by your post. NTL are not forcing you, or me, to do anything - when the price of something rises we have the choice of buying it or not. I choose to continue buying it.

If you don't want 1.5mb then you simply have to drop a level, or move - but remember - some of us are quite happy with the speed increase (which is in the next three months, not next year).

Please tell me where [or how] exactly am I being "fleeced".

[DeadKenny]

Originally Posted by andygrif

Yes, your figures are spot on, but they do not tell the whole story, as not everyone is interested in how much data they can download, whilst still staying within the AUP, but rather how fast they can browse.

If that's the case you only really need the 150k (or better the 300k when it's out), as there's very little benefit in browsing with much higher (certainly not at 1Mbps).

Sure it's faster but we're talking millisecond differences that make naff all difference to the user.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherN00b

Not interested in being involved in this argument but just to point out 1Mbit users in no way subsidise other packages, quite the opposite in fact they are the least profitable of the tiers.

The argument that they subsidise the other tiers is based on all 1Mbit users sticking to 30GB a month - the vast majority don't, some pull 250GB or more. Add that to the extra congestion caused on the upstream path from the 1Mbit users with 256k uploads and it soon becomes clear that they are the least profitable tier, they pay the lowest rate per kbit of the tiers both now and in the future after the price increases etc while downloading markedly more than the other tiers.

... just giving you the facts to be honest, whether you want to believe me and anyone else who tells you this or not is entirely up to you, but the above are the incontrovertible facts.

Okay, back these statistics up with evidence.

How do you know what the habits are of all the 1Mbps users on NTL and how do you know how profitable it is?

[Chrysalis]

ok to answer points made since my last post

its been pointed out that 1mbit users are supposedbly the least profitable, I am basing my figures on guidelines been stuck to, its not my fault ntl allow people to download 250gig/month.

someone else made a calculation based on kbit/sec speed instead, this is a false valuation as it isn't a unmetered service.

to answer the confusions again 1mbit=300 gig is quite simply what you can download on 1mbit of bandwidth in 1 month if maxed out, what it is capable off, most metered products around the world are calculated like this. However because upload is still unmetered I didnt take that into account so the 1mbit users are getting better value for money on the upload bandwidth.

to answer a few more points, I doubt many people will spend 37.99 on a top tier service just so they can browse a fraction faster, the difference between 600kbit and 1mbit on 90% of websites is probably less then 10%, once you reach the higher speeds the advantage is gained with stuff that uses sustained traffic rather then bursty traffic such as downloading and streaming.

I am not going to argue that ntl are probably making the least out of the top tier package because it is probably true, but thats down to ntl's own mistakes, and how the packages are made up.

[DeadKenny]

The way I see it, there is a dismissive attitude here: "if you're happy with it great, if not downgrade or quit and stop bugging us because we're happy and don't like others moaning about it". I thought this dismissive fan-boy attitude was something left behind with the 'other' forum .

None of this addresses the real issue as to why on earth NTL have seen fit to hike the top tier price at a time when they should be decreasing prices to stay competitive? (remembering also that before Telewest stuck their finger in, it was going to be a price hike on just 1Mbps with no speed increase).

Originally Posted by Pem

Which of your two choice do you class me as ?

Ok, let me answer that for you - since I'm not an employee I must be the "sod you" category ..... except I'm not - but I am insulted by your post. NTL are not forcing you, or me, to do anything - when the price of something rises we have the choice of buying it or not. I choose to continue buying it.

If you don't want 1.5mb then you simply have to drop a level, or move - but remember - some of us are quite happy with the speed increase (which is in the next three months, not next year).

Please tell me where [or how] exactly am I being "fleeced".

It is sadly a fact of life that some people do have the attitude that because they are not being asked for an increase it does not bother them.
If you feel insulted, I apologise.
When I was notified of the new price levels in my last NTL bill, I thought, "Why am I being asked for £3 per month more? when the other two tiers are not ".
There are many who feel the same way.
In fact, when I contacted NTL all their response was " Well it was all done by the marketing dept, I too think they made an error, but the new prices come into effect in june "
No mention of the speed increases by the way, which imo happen when they happen, what NTL tell you in publications etc do not believe.
If people are quite happy to pay the increase for something in the future then good luck to them.
Me? I prefer things up front.
A little like paying £1.20 for a four pint carton of milk in your supermarket.
You go in the following day and it is £4.20, when you question the price they tell you " well in three months time it will be a six pint carton."
Taking the above scenario, would I be justified in thinking I am being fleeced?

All imo ofcourse.

[Chrysalis]

agree with both of you, a few people are assuming the price rises are linked with the speed increase the two are NOT linked, ntl's original move was just a price rise for the top tier of users, they then made a pr move to increase speed's following telewest's action, how do I know this is true? Because if ntl planned it like telewest did then we would all have had our speed upgrade's by now.

Pem I wish you was a bit more open, and not be afraid to criticise when due, I know there are good points about the service but I am not afraid to criticse when its due and I dont believe you really think the service and the way its provided is 100%.

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

The fact is NTL touted an unlimited product, this is not only my opinion.
If your gripe is that some pull more than 30gb per month, what are NTL doing about it?
Sending out letters means jack **** imo, unless they back it up with a court case.
Will they do that? no.
Why? because the trading standards may have something to say on the matter.

I wonder - would Tranding Standards have anything to say ?.

NTL have changed the terms & conditions of their product - AFAIK - they are perfectly entitled to do this. So, by continuing to use it don't you imply that you agree to the new conditions - and the fact that it was once "unlimited" is not relevant anymore.

Credit card companies seem to do this all the time with their services - as do many other companies.

Perhaps some legal eagles out there could clarify this ....

[Chrysalis]

Here is how I see it.

Example 1 - NTL, customer signs up to min 12 month contract, after 12 months contract is each month rolling on. Customer cant cancel within 12 months, so ntl if I am right can change the terms & conditions but not during the initial first 12 months, if they did do this then I think they were in the wrong, but I am not sure on this tho.

Example 2 - Credit card, they do things liek change interest rate etc. but if a customer has signed up to a set rate then it doesnt get messed with, not as far as I know anyway.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

agree with both of you, a few people are assuming the price rises are linked with the speed increase the two are NOT linked, ntl's original move was just a price rise for the top tier of users, they then made a pr move to increase speed's following telewest's action, how do I know this is true? Because if ntl planned it like telewest did then we would all have had our speed upgrade's by now.

Pem I wish you was a bit more open, and not be afraid to criticise when due, I know there are good points about the service but I am not afraid to criticse when its due and I dont believe you really think the service and the way its provided is 100%.

NTL wanted to increase the prices, end of story.
Their MD is quoted basically as saying he wanted to punish top users of the 1mb service.
As they release their increase, telewest have upped their speeds, NTL backtracking have to pull something out the hat, hence speed increase.
Price increase and speed increase are not linked, one came before the other, fact.

Originally Posted by Pem

I wonder - would Tranding Standards have anything to say ?.

NTL have changed the terms & conditions of their product - AFAIK - they are perfectly entitled to do this. So, by continuing to use it don't you imply that you agree to the new conditions - and the fact that it was once "unlimited" is not relevant anymore.

Credit card companies seem to do this all the time with their services - as do many other companies.

Perhaps some legal eagles out there could clarify this ....

Sorry pem, as far as I know, NTL did not send me NEW TERMS AND CONDITIONS, which is why imo the ones I signed up to are relevant to me and other users who signed the same time as me or before.
The new conditions can only apply to people new to the service.
A little like your employment terms and conditions.
Your employer cannot change them without consultation with the workforce and union.
Why else would NTL not be willing to back up their threat of taking further action against people who go over the limit?
I am totally miffed by their approach really.
I think they are at a crossroads, they are happy just to send a letter out here and there hoping it will change people's habits, knowing full well that they cannot legally enforce their NEW rule on older accounts.
And while the situation is as it is, they dont have to increase capacity to deal with demand.