School helped secret abortion

Originally Posted by Alanmelon

"A scathing attack on the system?!"

Perhaps she should deliver a scathing attack on herself
Either that or lay the blame at her daughter's feet for her actions. I would have thought the last person to blame is the 'system' - whatever that may be?

Oh, but don't you know, it's *always* someone else's fault...!

[iadom]

Originally Posted by orangebird

the GIRL didn't want to tell her parents......

Oh thats all right then, would the school have been as accommodating if she had broken a window. "please don,t tell my mum"
I am definately not anti abortion, but in this case the parents should have been informed, regardless of what a confused, mixed up 14 year old says.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by s1lv3r

would a 14yr old deciding to kill a human being be more tragic than giving birth to it?

No. It's not human at six weeks. Learn about these things.

OB, i think it's pretty obvious we're not going to agree.. me being pro-life and you obviously being pro-choice (or pro-nolife, whatever)

You were doing really well there until your underhand, ignorant comment in brackets. Red rep for you.

I'll leave it there, I think I've said my peace.

Good choice. But pop in and say hello when you're back in the real world.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by iadom

So she is "child enough" not to be allowed to have a baby, but "adult enough" to make this decision without any input from her parents and legal guardians.

I think the problem here is that OB is talking about what the school are and aren't allowed to do. I don't know the rules about this, so I could be wrong (and will hopefully be corrected if I am) but any school counselling staff will almost certainly not be allowed to discuss anything the child said to them with anyone else (including parents), and this rule may apply to teachers as well.

I am not sure if the school should have advised the girl to have the abortion, but there may be circumstances we are unaware of that made them do this.


Edit: It looks like Schools are bound by confidentiality rules:

Originally Posted by The Times

A local education authority spokeswoman added: <snip>
and if there is to be any disclosure the teachers should seek consent from that pupil that they are working with <snip>

So, they would have needed her permission to tell her mother. Maybe the mother should be asking why the Girl didn't give permission?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by iadom

Oh thats all right then, would the school have been as accommodating if she had broken a window. "please don,t tell my mum"
I am definately not anti abortion, but in this case the parents should have been informed, regardless of what a confused, mixed up 14 year old says.

Then youn need to campaign for a change in the law. The school had to follow the LAW. Not their own moral stances.

[iadom]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Then youn need to campaign for a change in the law. The school had to follow the LAW. Not their own moral stances.

Where is Victoria Gillick when you need her, ( I found her very annoying BTW)

Edit. Don,t know how I managed to get on the wrong side of a discussion with OB, I should know better.

Legally you are of course correct, but I would guess that in the same situation you would want to be told, and I would dread to be the counsellor responsible, if you found out.

[Jon M]

Originally Posted by orangebird

No. It's not human at six weeks. Learn about these things.



You were doing really well there until your underhand, ignorant comment in brackets. Red rep for you.



Good choice. But pop in and say hello when you're back in the real world.

Congratulations!
You get the honour of being my first red repper.

What is it before six weeks then.. a fish? Don't get me started on that..

I'm happy that we've both shown where we stand.. and I didn't feel that red repping you would help me prove my point, so I won't.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by orangebird

No, you're right it's not, just MPO. The school/counsellors did the right and legal thing. Whether it was morally right or not is another matter, which is entirely down to the indiviuals personal opinion.

Yup, thats my beef with the case....I feel that it's immoral to not bring the parents in on the whole discussion.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by scastle

<snip>

I am not sure if the school should have advised the girl to have the abortion, but there may be circumstances we are unaware of that made them do this.


<snip>

I don't think the school 'advised' her to have an abortion...

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by s1lv3r

Congratulations!
You get the honour of being my first red repper.

What is it before six weeks then.. a fish? Don't get me started on that..

I'm happy that we've both shown where we stand.. and I didn't feel that red repping you would help me prove my point, so I won't.

I don't think you had cause to red rep me - I'm happy to accept your pro-life stance. Your comment on pronolife (as opposed to prochoice which I am) was uncalled for.

Originally Posted by orangebird

No. It's not human at six weeks. Learn about these things. <snip>

Hang on, I'm prolife as well, but I'm trying not to make it the issue in this topic, as I think the issue of the parents not being informed is what is of particular concern here. Nevertheless, OB, I think you are way off-beam making such a huge statement as 'not human' and suggesting silver needs to go and learn about it.

There is no doubt that a six-week-old unborn child has no hope of survival outside of his/her mother's body, due to being completely unready, biologically, to face the world. But to say the child is actually not human is stretching definitions way too far the child has the genetic code of a human being. If s/he is not human, what is s/he? And we haven't even begun to discuss the possibility that there might be more to being human than the biochemical machine that is your body and brain. What about the possibility of a spirit? Science has not (arguably cannot) answer that question. If we have a spirit, or essence, that can exist apart from our bodies, we have to ask when that spirit arises (and where it comes from, for that matter). And if it arises at conception, then an unborn child at any stage of development is arguably as human as the rest of us, both spiritually and biologically.

I am not setting out to try to prove my point of view here. I just think it is important to consider that there are alternative explanations and to avoid making sweeping pronouncements.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by orangebird

I don't think the school 'advised' her to have an abortion...

Actually, the article appears to imply that rather than state it. It actually states

after consultation with school advisers (the girl) decided to abort the child

I added the words "(the Girl)" to make it clearer.

Having said that, she could have decided to abort, and then just told the school.

[Ramrod]

I understand how the counsellors had to keep the knowledge secret from the mother (thats fine), what I cannot understand is how a medical procedure was carried out without her knowledge or consent. The mind boggles.....

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by towny

I am not setting out to try to prove my point of view here. I just think it is important to consider that there are alternative explanations and to avoid making sweeping pronouncements.

If you are effected by an issue like this you must make sweeping pronouncements, this girl can't wait around until they catagorically proven that spirit does or does not exist

[imback]

Originally Posted by iadom

So she is "child enough" not to be allowed to have a baby, but "adult enough" to make this decision without any input from her parents and legal guardians.

But telling her parents is her choice not that of a teacher or anyone else, I would think anyone that did break the girls confidence would infact lose their job.

I don't see how anyone else can be blamed in this situation other than the girl and her mother.