Cost of living

[Jerrek]

I'm seriously thinking of doing a four-month co-op semester outside of Canada, in the UK, Finland, or Australia if possible. Those three countries have the most companies snooping around our school trying to hire students. (I'm not counting the United States because, well, it is basically Canada Sr.) Now before I jump into something like that, I'm wondering about cost of living. In fact, I'm trying to be more general here because I'm kind of interest in knowing where you guys' money goes to. I know the UK is a bit more expensive than Canada, but I'm sure some stuff is cheaper. Where does your money go to? And if I'm a single student living in London, how much should I be expecting to pay for accomodation, utilities, and food? I'm trying to figure out the economics behind getting a work term done outside of Canada.


Here is what it costs to live in Canada:

Cellphone: C$40 per month [£16] gives you 200 anytime minutes.

Telephone: C$45 per month [£18] gives me unlimited calling in North America.

Internet: C$65 per month [£26] gives me 10/1 Mb cable line.

Television: US$45 per month [£23] gives me America's 180 (all regular channels, no HBO, Starz, etc.)


Housing
A house in a middle class neighborhood near Toronto is about C$250,000 [£100,00 0]. A family where both parents work can probably afford a house of $400,000 [£160,00 0]. (It is significantly cheaper the further you move from Toronto... this money will buy you a mansion in Calgary) Interest rate is 1% below prime, [3.5%]

Thus, assuming you buy a house of $250,000 at 3.5%, your monthly interest payment is $729.


In Waterloo, one can sublet (meaning, someone rents a house for a year and then "rents" it to other people, the subletters) a room in a 5 bedroom house with kitchen, basement, etc., for $275 a month [£110] plus utilities, usually $50 [£20].


Utilities
Hydro (electricity) is about 4.5¢ per kWh. Gas is measured in cents per cubic centimeters. I don't remember the price now. Hydro is used for air-conditioning, and gas is used for heating. Usually, when one goes down, the other goes up. Combined, they are about $400 [£160] per month for a 3,500 sq. ft. house with 5 people. That is to maintain a temperature of 20 C or so.

Water is usually $200 a month [£80] for a house with 5 people with lots of showering, washing machines, and watering the lawn.


Hydro + gas + water is £20 a month for me when I sublet in Waterloo.


Car
Cars range from C$12,000 to C$35,000 [£4,850 to £14,200]. A small econobox car is C$12,000, whereas a minivan is about C$35,000. If you buy GM, interest rate is 0%. If you buy Japanese, it is 0.9% or 1.9%. My folks are leasing two cars, a minivan and an econobox. One is about $200 a month, the other about $300. [£160 and £120]


Food
Expensive. For myself, I spend about C$50 [£20] a week on groceries. That is for one person.


Clothes
t-shirt: C$10 to C$15 [£4 to £6]
nice shorts: C$20 [£8]
jeans: C$20 to C$40 [£8 to £16]
dress pants + dress shoes + dress shirt + tie: C$400 [£160]



Did I miss anything?


Oh yeah, salary:

Math/Engineering students:

1st year: $500 per week [£202]
2nd year: $550 per week [£222]
3rd year: $630 per week [£255]
4th year: $700+ per week [£285+]

Graduation: Expect $44,000 [£18,000] or more.


Last semester I got paid $20.771 per hour. [£8.41]

[Xaccers]

I think the UK will be too expensive for you mate.

Check on www.rightmove.co.uk for cost of houses etc.
The average house costs approx £150,00 0
Someone in london was selling a parking space just outside the congestion charge area for about £30K a little while ago
That site also does renting, seems to be £300-£500 a month for most places.

New cars, you're looking at 6-8K for a small cheap one.
Mine's about £15K

Fuel, well it's nearly £4/ imp gallon

£18,000 is about the average salary if memory serves, might be lower.

[Jerrek]

*frown* I usually make enough money to pay for the next four months, including my studies, accomodation, food, etc. However, I usually live at home when I work, meaning, I can save a lot of money because I get free lodging, free food, free laundry, free car, etc.

I guess I have to think of the opportunity cost. A term outside of Canada will look good on my co-op record and on my resume. If I spend all the money I make in the other country on living there, I will have to obtain money from my reserves in order to continue my studies. That might be worth it. The question is, do I want to spend money to be able to work there? Perhaps.

Is Scotland cheaper? Or Ireland? See, most likely if I go the work will be in London. Or at least one of the four major cities. As a student, not one wanting to buy a car or a house, how much can I expect to pay just to live without any luxuries then?


And, lastly, do I have to pay taxes if I am a foreigner? I promise NOT to use welfare, claim unemployment benefits, sue your government because forms are not in Dutch, etc.



EDIT: I should also mention that I'm positively sure the employers usually offer to pay for something, whether that be the cost of moving there, or the cost of renting a room, etc. If that is so, think it will be more feasible?

[Xaccers]

Where abouts in london?

[Jerrek]

I have absolutely no idea. Probably the important part. Is there an equivalent to "downtown Toronto" in London, i.e. the place where most of the important businesses are located? Like Manhattan?

[Xaccers]

What role are you looking for?

[Jerrek]

I don't know yet. I'll take whatever job I can get. I'm pretty flexible.

[Xaccers]

Are you going to be doing it as a student placement, or as a normal employee?
You'll need to talk to the embassy about your working rights and tax etc.
If it's going to be as a normal employee, check sites like www.jobsearch.co.uk or www.jobserve.co.uk
Contract work might be the best to look at.
Most places will need a month's notice to leave, although unless they can prove they've lost money from you just walking out, there's nothing they can do to stop you, and they must pay you for the work you've done.

[punky]

England is nowhere near as cheap as Ontario. I mean, when I went there HMV in downtown TO was selling cds like for an average of $12.. Like £5.. Crazy. i'll try and give you prices for what I can though.



Cellphone: Varies a lot. figure between 10-50p a min. Check Orange, O2, etc.
Telephone: BT charges between £11-£23 line rental depending on what package you want. TalkTalk do cheap calling plans. For long distance, use Onetel. I use them, and they are about 4p to Canada/US. Line rental on NTL is free if you have the TV service.

Internet: 1Meg lines are generally around £35. Check NTL or Nildram for DSL.

Television: I have the all inclusive package. Sports, movies and entertainment. That costs me about £48/month. The base pack is about £18 (rememeber the free phone line though).


Housing: A one bed flat out here in the 'burbs (of London) will run you about £150/week. If you move a bit closer to the city, you can get it a bit cheaper though, but the quality comes down. Some areas (like North London) are fairly affluent, and can charge upto £350/week for a decent flat. In other cities though, it is much cheaper. The best places around in Coventry was like £60 including bills for a share in a house. Look for UK estate agents in a search engine.

Utilities

Water: Costs me about £215/year
Electric: Costs me about £42/quarter
Gas (Used for my central heating) £180/quarter. Obviously next couple of quarters it will be low. (Bear in mind though, some places use Gas cooking.)


Cars: New cars cost about £7000 up. Petrol is expensive at 78+p A LITRE. Car tax is $110/year or £60/6 months. Insurance is real high, and you'd probably need lessons to pass our driving test (it's really tough compared to the rest of the world), so factor £15-20 a lesson.

Public Transport: For a travel card (unlimited bus, train, underground) among defined zones, upto £140 depending on what zones you want.(see here

Food: I spend between like £20-£40/week on groceries, and grocery related items. I do tend to waste a bit though, so you could probably save a bit on that.


Clothes: I don't buy a whole lot, but have these guidelines for branded clothes (but not designer label) clothes.
t-shirt: £10+
nice shorts: £20+
jeans: £15-20+

Although supermarkets can do this stuff cheap.

Salary: For a uni. leaver in a tech. industry, about £17,000 . If you are lucky, you could £20,000 which includes London weighting (you get paid more for living in London, because everything is more expensive). For a final year student, factor about £14,000-£17,000 . Don't forget to take the tax off that (22%)

I don't think you get taxed for being a foreigner. Just the income tax, etc.

Living out the in the country would make quite a few things cheaper, but would make finding work hard obviously. Ireland is supposed to be quite expensive (friend of mine just came back from a holiday there). I'm pretty sure Finland is too, (I know Norway and Sweden are, so chances are, all of scandanavia is). Australia is fairly cheap though, I think.

HTH anyway. Anything else you need, just ask.

[Jerrek]

Hm? No, I'll go as a student. The employer usually takes care of all the visas and permits and stuff. I will be going through the job selection process here at school. There is enough companies from the UK, Finland, and Australia anxious to hire from the university.

[Richard M]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

I have absolutely no idea. Probably the important part. Is there an equivalent to "downtown Toronto" in London, i.e. the place where most of the important businesses are located? Like Manhattan?

Yeah, the City area with postcodes starting EC1-EC4 and WC1-WC2.
You must be crazy trying to live there though - expect to pay upwards of £2000 a month rent for a tiny bedsit (we're talking San Francisco/central LA prices here).

You'd be much better off in a smaller city such as Manchester, Newcastle, Cardiff or even a town like Reading.

Do NOT live in an area of London without finding out what it's like for crime etc because there are some very dodgy areas in the east, north and in more central areas.
The good areas are Hampstead, Kensington and Chelsea although you can expect to pay only slightly less to live here than in the inner city.

[punky]

Oh, something I forgot to mention before with the TV, (I was reminded this morning), You have to get a TV license to watch TV. You don't have to pass a test or anything but you have to buy a license for a year (or X months) to be able to watch TV legally. If you get caught watching TV without it, you get fined (And they have vans going round the country checking).

I know it sounds a bit weird as you don't have it over there, but the BBC don't play commercial advertisements on TV etc, so you have to pay for it. BTW, there is no way out of it. You can't use the excuse "Well, I only watch channels 3, 4 and 5". Wether you watch the BBC or not, if you have a TV you have to pay.

[Defiant]

Cost of living+london= LOL

if your going to the uk keep away from london

The East Midlands is a nice place - and a reasonably cheap COL as well.

[Defiant]

have a think about Holland too. Thats a very nice place and there second language is English too dont forget