Hull uni bans Christian Union - Page 3

Bex · 04-04-2004, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Because they don't like each other?

xac..think russ was using that as an analogy to show that having a football fan from one team leading another group would seem absurd

:pp

Xaccers · 04-04-2004, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by bexy

xac..think russ was using that as an analogy to show that having a football fan from one team leading another group would seem absurd

:pp

I don't think so, not if that person was open and understanding.
But as we've said the issue with the CU and SU isn't over leadership, it's over membership.
The SU has a rule which states you mustn't discriminate against others when it comes to membership.
The CU has a problem with this as it could possibly potentially maybe if they all voted for that person, lead to a non-christian being leader.
Something you could argue as being less likely than the second coming (think about it)

Bex · 04-04-2004, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I don't think so, not if that person was open and understanding.
But as we've said the issue with the CU and SU isn't over leadership, it's over membership.
The SU has a rule which states you mustn't discriminate against others when it comes to membership.
The CU has a problem with this as it could possibly potentially maybe if they all voted for that person, lead to a non-christian being leader.
Something you could argue as being less likely than the second coming (think about it)

i am not sure i would have a problem with a non-believer being a member of the CU but if they were in a leadership role then it would run amockery of everything the group believe....yes you can teach basic biblical truths academically without any belief but when it comes to things such as teaching about the holy spirit it becomes more than academia IMO
we often had non-believers attend our CU and church meetings but if, for example, my best mate who is a non-believer (but studided theology) were to become a leader i would be uncomfortable with that

there is more to it that being "open and understanding" you can understand the basics from an academic view point but you can't understand the feeling of faith or the experiences of the holy spirit etc

Russ · 04-04-2004, 12:14

I certainly can understand them barring non-believers from membership. I've yet to be convinced why someone who does not believe would want to be part of a Christian Union. The argument that they want to find out more before committing etc falls flat because there are no doubt plenty of churches and bible study classes (especially in a city as large as Hull) where they can do that. Just about each town will have a church which will run an Alpha Course (do a google if you've not heard of it), specifically set up for people who want to know more.

Xaccers · 04-04-2004, 12:19

If you don't believe any non-believers would want to join, then why bother going to the effort of banning them?

Bex · 04-04-2004, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If you don't believe any non-believers would want to join, then why bother going to the effort of banning them?

a valid point xac.....the cu at leeds was always encouraging non-believers to attend meetings etc.... they used to hold a lot of free BBQs i seem to remember

Xaccers · 04-04-2004, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by bexy

a valid point xac.....the cu at leeds was always encouraging non-believers to attend meetings etc.... they used to hold a lot of free BBQs i seem to remember

See, that makes more sense to me.
Be inclusive rather than exclusive.

Bex · 04-04-2004, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

See, that makes more sense to me.
Be inclusive rather than exclusive.

yeah......especailly since half the point is meant to witness to non-believers.....but would you stretch so far as to say they should become members....membership is something quite different to simply attending

Xaccers · 04-04-2004, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by bexy

yeah......especailly since half the point is meant to witness to non-believers.....but would you stretch so far as to say they should become members....membership is something quite different to simply attending

Doesn't membership just show them that they are welcome and valued?
Denying that makes out the members think they are somehow better and above non-members

Bex · 04-04-2004, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Doesn't membership just show them that they are welcome and valued?
Denying that makes out the members think they are somehow better and above non-members

no......within most christian groups (the ones i have attended anyway) to be welcomed and valued you do not have to be a member...... membership just means that you will serve the community(the church/the CU whatever) it is about standing up in faith...as far as i see it

Russ · 04-04-2004, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Denying that makes out the members think they are somehow better and above non-members

I'd say only the cynical would hold that opinion.

Russ · 04-04-2004, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If you don't believe any non-believers would want to join, then why bother going to the effort of banning them?

I didn't say I didn't believe they've join, I said I don't know why they'd want to.

Shaun · 04-04-2004, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

I certainly can understand them barring non-believers from membership.

Out of interest, how do you define a "non-believer"?? Is there a test? Do you have to walk over hot coals or something?

Surely there are varying degrees of belief, like Towny said earlier some people only believe parts of the bible, can they only become part time member/leaders??

This non-believer is very confused about it all

Russ · 04-04-2004, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellwear

Out of interest, how do you define a "non-believer"?? Is there a test? Do you have to walk over hot coals or something?

Surely there are varying degrees of belief, like Towny said earlier some people only believe parts of the bible, can they only become part time member/leaders??

This non-believer is very confused about it all

A believer is someone who believes Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected by God, that sort of thing....

**Chris** · 04-04-2004, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellwear

Out of interest, how do you define a "non-believer"?? Is there a test? Do you have to walk over hot coals or something?

Surely there are varying degrees of belief, like Towny said earlier some people only believe parts of the bible, can they only become part time member/leaders??

This non-believer is very confused about it all

Christianity has been around for 2,000 years but no-one seriously challenged doctrines like the resurrection and virgin birth until the last 100 years or less.

Because such core beliefs are no longer taken for granted, many churches and other Christian organisations have taken to writing down what they believe and requiring everyone who actively participates in their activities to 'sign up' to them. Now, it may well be possible to be a 'true believer', yet for whatever reason have trouble accepting certain parts of the faith. Such people are excluded from leadership in these situations not because someone else wants to make a simplistic judgement about whether they are a believer or not, but because the church/organisaion/CU has made a decision that it holds to a certain set of beliefs, and that set of beliefs is to be maintained.

An 'Evangelical' Christian Union has to have some way of remaining evangelical despite the fact that, due to University courses only lasting 3 or 4 years, its membership in 2004 is almost entirely changed from what it was in 2000.