ID cards for uk citizens over 16

[Russ]

...as long as it wasn't from her forehead or the back of her right hand then she's fine

[kronas]

to me its all BS yes it will happen not in our lifetimes i dont think and religion is not even a part of it humans or machines will most likely try to dictate people by using these 'chips' to 'control' them

[Dave Stones]

Originally posted by Russ D
...as long as it wasn't from her forehead or the back of her right hand then she's fine

nah it was from the back of her neck, but then it somehow made her pregnant and i got lost... that was about when i stopped watching the x-files it confuddled me too much.

OT tho whats the significance of the right hand? i thought it was left-handed people that were the work of the devil according to olden-days people, or is that me confusing something else again?

to me its all BS yes it will happen not in our lifetimes i dont think and religion is not even a part of it humans or machines will most likely try to dictate people by using these 'chips' to 'control' them

theres semi-control now tho aint there, tracking criminals with those ankle belts or shock-collars or whatever the hell those things are they wear... not that im against it just arguiing that i think it is likley in our lifetime we will be tracked everywhere...

[kronas]

Originally posted by Dave Stones

theres semi-control now tho aint there, tracking criminals with those ankle belts or shock-collars or whatever the hell those things are they wear... not that im against it just arguiing that i think it is likley in our lifetime we will be tracked everywhere...

yes tracking devices are there in use for criminals also for keeping track of kids by parents through the mobile phone using a service on the net but i was rather talking about actually controlling humans and there thoughts etc

[Russ]

Not sure what the significance of the right hand is, that;s just what is stated in Revelations. The whole "left-hand" thing I think was invented when people couldn't understand why some prefer their left-hand for everyday use.

Originally posted by Russ D
Not sure what the significance of the right hand is, that;s just what is stated in Revelations. The whole "left-hand" thing I think was invented when people couldn't understand why some prefer their left-hand for everyday use.

In the symbolism of the Bible, the right hand symbolises authority (hence why, when Jesus ascended into heaven, he sat down 'at the right hand of God'.)

It's the right hand because by accepting the mark there you symbolically yield allegiance to Antichrist. That said, I have no idea why the forehead is offered as an alternative. Must do some reading up...

[El Diablo]

Originally posted by Russ D


It is stated that during the 'end times' (do a google for more info) the antichrist will demand everyone takes a mark of loyalty to him. This will come in the form of an indentifying 'mark' on the forehead or back of the right hand. Anyone who takes this mark will never be saved. Hopefully you can see from this why many christians would not be in favour of using and ID card.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but I am still really failing to see the significance between the mark of the antichrist and the use of an ID card. If this was a good enough reason for people to not carry such cards, how do all the American christians manage? Surely, an ID card is proof of identity [as it's name would suggest], rather than a 'mark' as you seem to be suggesting. The mark on the back forehead or back of the right hand is not a personal identifier, simply a form of generic labelling that identifies persons belonging to a particular set - nothing more specific. If the government were suggesting I have "UK" tattooed to my forehead, or back of my right hand, then yes, I would object also.

Originally posted by Russ D

The problem here is that of all the books of the Bible, the only one which has not yet come true is Revelations - it is a prediction of the future. 2000 years or 10,000 years, we believe it will happen.

...erm... with respect, you would need to 'prove' that the other books of the bible are true or have come true since they were created... to my knowledge, no conclusive proof of the existence of these people or the validity of the stories contained within the good books actually exists - hence the existence of varying religions, dependant upon ones choice of flavour.

Originally posted inRevelations 20: 7-8
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth...to gather them together in battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

IMHO, it's all down to interpretation and belief... I just find it hard to believe your resoning behind christians not wishing to have ID... surely if Satan is going to put his mark on you anyway, as can be intrerpreted from the book of revelations, it's inevitable and therefore no matter what is done by us mere mortals, our fate is already decided.

Originally posted by timewarrior2001
[B]Hopefully the ID card will become reality, and those immigrants that enter illegallly will end up destitute no money, no nice cosy council house and no chance at all of claiming legal aid.

Curiously enough, that's exactly the excuse that David Blunkett used to re-introduce the idea of ID cards after the last attempt to introduce "entitlement cards" fell through.

If you can't get them to agree "for their own good" then try to scare them with the bogeyman...

However, theres still nothing to prevent false Iris and fingerprint scans, I mean, fake an ID card and put your own details on, et voila an acceptable ID card.

And yet, later on, you demand ID cards because of "our right to live in safety", yet as you demonstrate here, those who would infringe on that safety would immediately find ways of circumventing the system!

I fail to see what rights we have now that will be affected by having an ID card

That's pretty self-evident.

I mean, if we dont have our driving documents on us we have to report to a police station within 7 days.

I don't drive. I don't have a licence. I don't *need* a licence. I don't *need* to be able to prove my identity to *anyone*.

And what good is having to produce your documents at a Police station within 7 days if you've stolen the car?!

[quoteIf we are not on the electoral role it is impossible to obtain credit[/quote]

And how will having an ID Card change that??

The national insurance card scheme failed. So we need a replacement, a card that can act as :- A) a passport B) proof of ID C) a credit card D) a bank card E) a driving licence

No, we do not *NEED* anything of the sort!

It may be *convenient* for some (especially the government and big business), however that is nothing like the same thing!

Whats the harm? dont mention human rights, how can this be against our human rights. What about our right to live in safety?

The fact that you ask this merely points out that you don't understand the rights you will have and which you risk losing if such a scheme is introduced.

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin

[Xaccers]

/wonders what Graham has to hide

Originally posted by Russ D
On the subject of the 'mark', I found this short article.

And this was mentioned in a book witten 2000 years ago.....

That site is poppy-cock
The very chip contains no more information than your credit card does (ie just a number)
It's the same principle as getting your dog or cat chipped.
It is not a tracking device!
The range of the signal barely breaks the skin, you have to run the reader over the implant.
The reader checks the number against a database that holds your information.
GPS tracking my arse.

[Russ]

Originally posted by El Diablo


Forgive me for my ignorance, but I am still really failing to see the significance between the mark of the antichrist and the use of an ID card. If this was a good enough reason for people to not carry such cards, how do all the American christians manage? Surely, an ID card is proof of identity [as it's name would suggest], rather than a 'mark' as you seem to be suggesting. The mark on the back forehead or back of the right hand is not a personal identifier, simply a form of generic labelling that identifies persons belonging to a particular set - nothing more specific. If the government were suggesting I have "UK" tattooed to my forehead, or back of my right hand, then yes, I would object also.

I repeat, I never said that this silly ID card is the 'mark' described in Revelations.

..erm... with respect, you would need to 'prove' that the other books of the bible are true or have come true since they were created... to my knowledge, no conclusive proof of the existence of these people or the validity of the stories contained within the good books actually exists - hence the existence of varying religions, dependant upon ones choice of flavour.

Erm...with respect, no I don't need to prove anything, Christianity is based on 'faith'. I also repeat that I have never said there should be no ID cards at all, I just said they should not be compulsary.

IMHO, it's all down to interpretation and belief... I just find it hard to believe your resoning behind christians not wishing to have ID... surely if Satan is going to put his mark on you anyway, as can be intrerpreted from the book of revelations, it's inevitable and therefore no matter what is done by us mere mortals, our fate is already decided.

I love to listen to those with little or no understanding of the Bible

If you've read Revelations (I assume you haven't) you'll see that it is not inevitable that antichrist will put the mark on us at all - he will try to force it on us but he is also subject to free will just as God is.

That site is poppy-cock
The very chip contains no more information than your credit card does (ie just a number)
It's the same principle as getting your dog or cat chipped.
It is not a tracking device!
The range of the signal barely breaks the skin, you have to run the reader over the implant.
The reader checks the number against a database that holds your information.
GPS tracking my arse

Grrrrrrrrr!! I did not say that this was the chip mentioned in Revelations!! I'm just pointing out how close we are to something mentioned in a book written 2000 years ago which could not have imagined the technology we have today!!

[duncant403]

If you want to get really worried about "marks" you should read the following:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/31461.html

[Martin]

Hmmm after reading some of the links in this thread, i was always of the opinion an ID card wouldn't be a problem and I still think that. But the other mentions of chips were they could track money or a person does make me wonder if that would be a little too far. I wouldn't object to an ID card but I would object to possible tracking of myself. Again all this is more for stopping crime and in a way would be a good thing but the other half of me thinks it could easily be used for other motives.

[kronas]

russ a question from a freind of mine to you

which part of revelations this comes from............

"woe to you o earth and sea
for the devil sends the beast with wrath
because he knows the time is short.
let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast
for it is a human number.
it's number is 666"

[Martin]

Originally posted by kronas
russ a question from a freind of mine to you

which part of revelations this comes from............

"woe to you o earth and sea for the devil sends the beast with wrath because he knows the time is short. let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast for it is a human number. it's number is 666"

Iron Maiden if I'm not mistaken:p

Rev 12:12woe to you o earth and sea for the devil sends the beast with wrath because he knows the time is short

Rev 13:18 let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast for it is a human number. it's number is 666

[Russ]

Someone beat me to it!