HDTV enabled :D

[Richard M]

Originally Posted by Bifta

The new Xbox is supposed to support HDTV output...

About time too, consoles seem to be stuck in a VGA resolution these days.

Originally Posted by towny

625 lines for PAL, 500-and-something for NTSC if I remember rightly ...

512 I think.

[keithwalton]

Xbox does indeed support hdtv, though the games need to as well and not many of them are. As for connections you need the high definition pack for it. Which has 3 extra video cables for hdtv Y, Cb and Cr.
I think the idea is that everyone will adopt the hdtv standard which would mean we could use everyone elses tech that already exists with power adapters.

As for non hdtv standards pal digital is 760x576, and ntsc digital is 640x480.
As long as data rates are kept high pal digtal tv (pdtv) is good. Though sky seems to be heavily skrimping on data rate and those images you've posted clearly show what happens if you dont supply enough data.
pdtv works best at ~5mbit/s where as hdtv needs ~20mbit/s when using mpeg-2. i've heard that one hdtv channel takes up the space of 7ntsc channels which would mean ntsc rates are rather low at ~3mbit/s

Though this brings up another issue, why stick with mpeg-2, the derivatives of mpeg-4 are far superior when it comes down to quality at reduced data rate. HDTV will require completly new standalone hardware (bout a p4 2.4Ghz and recent video card) is needid to be able to play it on a computer) it is quite feasible in that shift to higer resolution to make the shift to different compression as well.

That way a hdtv chan could take up as little as 10mbit/s or twice the space of a good pal one.

I can see why the gov wanted them todo it at the same time as analogue switch off as that free's up massive amounts of terrestrial bandwidth.
We can but hope

K

[Richard M]

Hmm...was just reading this page.
Check out the system requirements:

Although other system configurations may be able to playback this content, for an optimal experience we recommend systems of at least a 2.53 GHz Intel or AMD Athlon XP 2200+ or higher processor for 720p and 3.0 GHz or greater processor for 1080p. For either scenario, an AGP4x based NVIDIA or ATI video adapter card with at least 32 MB of RAM and the most recent OEM driver updates are recommended.

The 720p sample clips have a data rate of 6884 Kbps and the 1080p samples have a data rate of 8384 Kbps. The higher the data rate, the higher the resource requirement. For optimal playback of 1080p content, an AGP8x 128 MB video card is required.

[Tristan]

Originally Posted by dr wadd

The XBox already supports HDTV if you use the correct cables to connect via component video. I`m not sure if the functionality is present in PAL XBoxes given the paucity of displays in this country that will accept a component input. That said, the games do need to support HDTV explicitly, so it is not an across the board solution.

I beleive that PAL XBoxes support progressive scan, but not 'true' hi-res HDTV output.

However, there are very few games which take advantage of hiher resolutions, so you're probably not missing anything.

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by dr wadd

Don`t forget to take into account that PAL non-HDTV transmissions are already at a higher resolution than NTSC ones.

Terrific. More black space when watching a movie. Not to mention it runs at an eeky 50 Hz and 25 fps. No thanks.

Originally Posted by Bifta

The new Xbox is supposed to support HDTV output, that'll be reason enough for me to invest in some HDTV equipment, not overly bothered about the lack of content on view atm, no doubt if it is introduced various suppliers will whack a hefty premium on it.

Today's Xbox has a component you can buy for $20 that will allow you to get HD output.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/h...tionavpack.htm

I haven't tried to plug my sister's Xbox in yet, but I will in the near future.

Originally Posted by towny

625 lines for PAL, 500-and-something for NTSC if I remember rightly (NTSC known in the industry as Not The Same Color, due to its infamously muddy pictures - I can well appreciate why North America is so keen to ditch it asap. And to think the BBC actually did early colour TV trials using NTSC! )

525... I don't actually know what you mean by the infamous muddy picture. You probably had old equipment. Today's equipment works just fine. Quite frankly, I prefer the 60 Hz over the 50, and less black space when viewing movies. *shrug*

Originally Posted by Jerrek

525... I don't actually know what you mean by the infamous muddy picture. You probably had old equipment. Today's equipment works just fine. Quite frankly, I prefer the 60 Hz over the 50, and less black space when viewing movies. *shrug*

You wouldn't - you had nothing to compare it with. If you watch a programme originally recorded on videotape in 625-line PAL on a 625-line PAL TV in the UK, and then you watch an imported American programme recorded in 525-line NTSC videotape, there is a noticeable drop in picture quality. It's inevitable - an NTSC TV picture has 15-20% less information in it than a PAL picture does.

However, if you watched an imported UK TV show recorded in PAL but broadcast in NTSC, I don't believe you would be able to take advantage of the additional picture resolution, because your TV networks are only geared up to transmit 525 lines of picture information.

This is nothing to do with 'old equipment' - my 2-year-old Sony widescreen TV exposes the yawning quality gap between PAL and NTSC just as well today as my old Decca set did 20 years ago. Any imported US TV show made available to UK TV networks on videotape rather than on film shows this phenomenon off admirably.

EDIT: The National Center for Supercomputing Applications notes on its website that the PAL method results in 'more stable and consistent hue' in colour TV pictures. If PAL is noted for consistent colour, it follows that those who use it would berate NTSC for being 'Not The Same Colour' or 'Never Twice the Same Colour'.

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SCMS/tr...tails/pal.html
http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SCMS/tr...standards.html

[Richard M]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Quite frankly, I prefer the 60 Hz over the 50 ...

It's only that way because of the electric supply frequency you know...

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by towny

You wouldn't - you had nothing to compare it with.

I've lived for half my life in countries that used PAL. We have a PAL television and video player. I have everything I need to compare it with.

If you watch a programme originally recorded on videotape in 625-line PAL on a 625-line PAL TV in the UK, and then you watch an imported American programme recorded in 525-line NTSC videotape, there is a noticeable drop in picture quality. It's inevitable - an NTSC TV picture has 15-20% less information in it than a PAL picture does.

That is true, however, the effect, while it is noticable, isn't that great.

However, if you watched an imported UK TV show recorded in PAL but broadcast in NTSC, I don't believe you would be able to take advantage of the additional picture resolution, because your TV networks are only geared up to transmit 525 lines of picture information.

Thats unfortunate, but it doesn't really bother me. Less than < 0.5% of what I watch is originally PAL.

This is nothing to do with 'old equipment' - my 2-year-old Sony widescreen TV exposes the yawning quality gap between PAL and NTSC just as well today as my old Decca set did 20 years ago. Any imported US TV show made available to UK TV networks on videotape rather than on film shows this phenomenon off admirably.

We were talking about muddy picture quality. I don't experience muddy picture quality. Nor have I seen that on any of the TVs I've used over here.

EDIT: The National Center for Supercomputing Applications notes on its website that the PAL method results in 'more stable and consistent hue' in colour TV pictures. If PAL is noted for consistent colour, it follows that those who use it would berate NTSC for being 'Not The Same Colour' or 'Never Twice the Same Colour'.

More consistent does not imply that NTSC is never the same color. It is just a gross exaggeration. I don't actually recall ever going "wow, she wears a different color shirt now!"

EDIT: Why? Because all TVs come with a hue adjustor that will fix it. That eliminates the "muddy" picture thing.

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by Richard M

It's only that way because of the electric supply frequency you know...

I know, but still, I get major headaches when my monitor is at 60 Hz. 60 Hz is pathetic enough, but 50 has got to be a real killer. On the bright side, it will force you to watch less television...

[Richard M]

A TV set is not the same a PC monitor though.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

We were talking about muddy picture quality. I don't experience muddy picture quality. Nor have I seen that on any of the TVs I've used over here.

Relative to PAL, that is. I don't experience grainy low-resolution images on my current TV, but when we (finally) get HDTV over here, I'll look back at my old PAL set and wonder how I ever enjoyed it.

Of course 'Never Twice the Same Colour' is a gross exaggeration, but we're just making idle conversation in a forum, not writing a dictionary.

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by towny

Relative to PAL, that is. I don't experience grainy low-resolution images on my current TV, but when we (finally) get HDTV over here, I'll look back at my old PAL set and wonder how I ever enjoyed it.

Of course 'Never Twice the Same Colour' is a gross exaggeration, but we're just making idle conversation in a forum, not writing a dictionary.

I'm not experiencing "grainy" television either...

Originally Posted by Jerrek

I'm not experiencing "grainy" television either...

[Jerrek]

Back to the topic. HDTV is definitely getting to be more mainstream.

- Over 50% of TV shows are broadcast in HDTV
- All of CBS' primetime shows are in HDTV
- All of ABC's primetime shows are in HDTV
- NBC has begun HDTV rollout
- FOX has committed to HDTV programming



I get the following specialty HDTV enabled channels:





and of course, 5 regular porn channels plus one in HD: (so you don't miss the details...)





Lots of primetime shows are now in HDTV, such as this Enterprise episode. Look at the CityTV HD icon in the bottom right.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

[Richard M]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Back to the topic. HDTV is definitely getting to be more mainstream.

- Over 50% of TV shows are broadcast in HDTV

In America.