In Defense of the Marriage

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

"The person I love is 2 years old. I want to marry him."

To clarify for you then, romantic love

Originally Posted by Jerrek

No. There is NO rights gained when you marry. You're confusing it with priviledges.

Contrary to your interpretation, there are rights gained when a couple marry. E.g. rights to things like shared pensions, tax reductions, etc. In this country that is, perhaps things are different stateside. These are rights, because by being married, people are entitled to them.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

I believe I already addressed this issue too. Please read my messages. The tradition of marriage is a man and a woman.

Times and traditions change, once it was forbidden to divorce, once people didn't get a choice in who they married. But the spirit of it carried on, so times change, smae-sex marriages become common. The spirit is still the same so how is that 'raping the tradition of marriage'. I can assure you, I do read your posts, I try to reply and address the issues in a sensible manner based on my opinions.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Bull****, and you need to get your act together. I've already addressed most of this:

Please remain calm, I am attempting to understand your viewpoint as well as get mine across.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Do you REALLY want to live in a society where five 5 men, 9 women, and 2 transsexuals are married and have kids? Would you like this kind of thing? I wouldn't.

To answer this, it would not faze me. These things are already in our society, just well hidden (I know this because I have seen it). It is not my personal choice, but I believe that people should have the freedom to live this way if they choose.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Not in the United States. A federal court uphold Florida's band on homosexuals adopting a few days ago. Kudos to them. I will not support putting children through that kind of torture.

Adoption is not the only way. And I certainly do not see it as torture.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

NO. YOU ARE NOT LISTENING-- There are NO RIGHTS. GET IT? NO RIGHTS!

Still doesn't say why a caertain section of people are granted a privilidge (which is also a right according to the dictionary :p ) when others are not.

[Bex]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

No. Not even a father have that mother-baby relationship.

im sorry but i dont entirely agree with you here....yes there could be an extra special bond between the mother and child, mainly because she carried it inside her for 9months, felt it move, felt it kick, gave birth to it.....however i dont think you can say a fathers love doesnt match that of the mothers

[Jerrek]

Contrary to your interpretation, there are rights gained when a couple marry. E.g. rights to things like shared pensions, tax reductions, etc. In this country that is, perhaps things are different stateside. These are rights, because by being married, people are entitled to them.

Well then, I know what you're talking about, but those are considered priviledges, not rights.

To clarify for you then, romantic love

Yup. "I'm romantically attracted to the two year old. I want to marry him."

Times and traditions change, once it was forbidden to divorce, once people didn't get a choice in who they married. But the spirit of it carried on, so times change, smae-sex marriages become common. The spirit is still the same so how is that 'raping the tradition of marriage'. I can assure you, I do read your posts, I try to reply and address the issues in a sensible manner based on my opinions.

"times and traditions change" is not an excuse to break one of society's fundamental pillars down. At this point, it seems we have a fundamental difference of opinion.

I value the traditional marriage. I value real families. I value the way society is. I have no desire to see those twisted "relationships" take form on my society, and I will support and vote accordingly.

You disagree, and I'll respect your opinion to disagree.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

"The person I love is 2 years old. I want to marry him."

No, sorry, that doesn't work.

A 2 year old does not have the mental capacity to enter into a marriage - end of story. Whats your point.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Not in the United States. A federal court uphold Florida's band on homosexuals adopting a few days ago. Kudos to them. I will not support putting children through that kind of torture.

But if one of the couple was the father then it would not be an adoption. This is an entirely possible direction that their parenting could take. How do you legislate against that? After all this is a country that lets Michael Jackson adopt!

[Jerrek]

A 2 year old does not have the mental capacity to enter into a marriage - end of story. Whats your point.

My point was it invalidates philip's argument that you should be allowed to marry anyone you love.

But if one of the couple was the father then it would not be an adoption. This is an entirely possible direction that their parenting could take. How do you legislate against that? After all this is a country that lets Michael Jackson adopt!

I don't know. If a parent divorces, takes the kids, and forms a relationship with a same-sex partner? I don't know. I wouldn't like it, for sure.

[Bex]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

<snip>I value real families

you have no right to make such a claim...... a family can be made up of many kinds of combinations, friends, single parents, husband and wife...you have no right to say the kind of family you have or want is a 'real' family

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by bexy

im sorry but i dont entirely agree with you here....yes there could be an extra special bond between the mother and child, mainly because she carried it inside her for 9months, felt it move, felt it kick, gave birth to it.....however i dont think you can say a fathers love doesnt match that of the mothers

We're talking different kinds of love.

[Bex]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

We're talking different kinds of love.

explain

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by bexy

you have no right to make such a claim...... a family can be made up of many kinds of combinations, friends, single parents, husband and wife...you have no right to say the kind of family you have or want is a 'real' family

Yes I do. It is called an opinion, and I have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of speech. And I'm exercising that right.

friends are not part of the family.

single partents, well, that is an incomplete family, but it is still a family because the child was born of a mother and father

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Well then, I know what you're talking about, but those are considered priviledges, not rights.

So your employer grants you pension privilages or pension rights. Hmm Rights I think. Spousal pension privilages or rights. Rights again.

Tax breaks could be deemed a privilage, but they are granted as a right in law otherwise a heavy handed tax official could take them away in instances of their choosing.

The pension, insurance and medical industries have all realised same sex relationships must be addressed, you can grant your spousal pension to a same sex partner, private medical cover can be bought for a same sex couple at the same rates as a heterosexual couple with no children. The commercial world is ahead of governments on this issue.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Yup. "I'm romantically attracted to the two year old. I want to marry him."

And a court of law would ask you to evidence that the two year old boy is romantically attracted to you. You cant.
A similar problem needs to be addressed when a marriage to someone with reduced mental capacity occurs.

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by bexy

explain

Going back to Greek, because English has only one word for which Greek (and Hebrew, Arabic, and other older languages) have more than one word:

AgÃÃâ€*’¡pe - unconditional love. I.e., mother-baby

PhilÃÃâ€*’ÂÂÂÂ*a - love between friends.

StorgÃÃâ€*’© - familial love, especially between parents and their children and also with close relatives.

ÃÃâ€*’â€Â °ros - erotic love

[Bex]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Yes I do. It is called an opinion, and I have a Bill of Rights that guarantees freedom of speech. And I'm exercising that right.

friends are not part of the family.

single partents, well, that is an incomplete family, but it is still a family because the child was born of a mother and father

right you have a right to your opinion but tp so publically denounce all other kinds of family life is not on........ if you had said "in my opinion the best kind of..." but you didn't you classed it a "real" family

friends are part of the family..... i have a large circle of friends who i class as family members....
i class my boyfriend as a member of my family..... if you have the right to judge the type of family that is real (and that is what you are doing not merely giving your opinion) then i have the right to discuss it with you

[Bex]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Going back to Greek, because English has only one word for which Greek (and Hebrew, Arabic, and other older languages) have more than one word:

AgÃÃâ€*’¡pe - unconditional love. I.e., mother-baby

PhilÃÃâ€*’ÂÂÂÂ*a - love between friends.

StorgÃÃâ€*’© - familial love, especially between parents and their children and also with close relatives.

ÃÃâ€*’â€Â °ros - erotic love

i think you will find that the first type of love is mainly ascribed to the God's ..

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

My point was it invalidates philip's argument that you should be allowed to marry anyone you love.

Well not quite, because as I also stated, I believe that both parties must be fully cognisant of what they ae doing. I cannot be said that the two year old has any knowledge of romantic attraction or how it applies to them.

I agree with you, that at the end of the day, if we have differing opions all we can do is vote on the isues and make others aware of our opinions.

[Jerrek]

friends are part of the family..... i have a large circle of friends who i class as family members....

No. I do not consider friends part of the nuclear family. Not in its strictest sense by definition.