In Defense of the Marriage

[Bex]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Just look at the animal kingdom. Ever tried to take an egg from an ostrich? Or a cub from a lioness?

I find it hard to swallow that you, as a woman, don't know this. Maybe you should ask someone who just had a baby. I find it even more ironic that a GUY is telling you all this. If you want to disagree, fine, disagree. You may not feel a special kind of love to your own child, but I know it is true for most other mothers.

i never disputed the fact that there isnt a bond between a mother and child, that was not the point i was getting at...however i had a problem with your original statement.... i think a child can be loved by same sex parents.....a child needs and deserves love and i am not going to question where they get it from as long as they get it
i love my nephew with all my heart, i love him as though he was my own child....i have been part of his life from when he was a mere hour or so old...but biolgically he is not my child....does that retract from the love that i give him? NO
and funnily enough i do know that i am a women, and just because it is someone male who is telling me does not change anything, you are coming across as increidbly patronising

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Marriage is for the protection of the family, especially the children. You should not scar a child for life by giving him two same-sex "parents." No one loves a child more than his genetic parents (ignoring the few cases of parents killing their children). Two men cannot have a child naturally, and two women can't have a child naturally. Therefore, a same-sex union is unnatural. A child needs a mother and a father. Not two of the same. Both have roles to fulfill. (Yes, I'm aware the divore rate is high, and that is very sad too.)

By keeping marriage as a union of a man and a woman, you are protecting the family unit, and our children.

Why is it going to scar a child for life is an important question to ask, and I`m sorry, you are one of the people responsible for that scarring taking place, not the same-sex parents.

If there weren`t people like you going around arguing the case that somehow this is unnatural and wrong then there wouldn`t be the context in which the child can be scarred. Don`t blame the parents for this problem, blame the people in society who kick up such a fuss about the issue and create a climate in which the child can be psychologically harmed.

As for your earlier question, I personally couldn`t give a damn whether my parents were a heterosexual or homosexual couple.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Just look at the animal kingdom. Ever tried to take an egg from an ostrich? Or a cub from a lioness?

I find it hard to swallow that you, as a woman, don't know this. Maybe you should ask someone who just had a baby. I find it even more ironic that a GUY is telling you all this. If you want to disagree, fine, disagree. You may not feel a special kind of love to your own child, but I know it is true for most other mothers.

If you're right and the biology issues are important, then the 'problem' can be fixed by hormone injections.

Originally Posted by Jerrek

You may not feel a special kind of love to your own child, but I know it is true for most other mothers.

You really are a prime example of an offensive, ignorant little moron. You have absolutely no right to make that kind of insinuation about Bexy or any other member of this board.

[Jerrek]

What about marrying the person that you love? There is discrimination there against same-sex couples.

"The person I love is 2 years old. I want to marry him."

No, sorry, that doesn't work.

So what does it mean to get married? Being married grants the people certai rights, so why deny certain groups of people the rights of being married.

No. There is NO rights gained when you marry. You're confusing it with priviledges. And I believe I already addressed that in my previous message.

How is two people who love each other, forming a union called marriage, 'raping' the tradition of marriage?

I believe I already addressed this issue too. Please read my messages. The tradition of marriage is a man and a woman.

There is a discrimination, because those who can get married are granted certain rights and those who cannot or chose not to get married do not have the same rights.

Bull****, and you need to get your act together. I've already addressed most of this:

1) There is NO discrimination, because both heterosexuals and homosexuals have the same priviledges. END OF DISCUSSION.
2) You do NOT GET RIGHTS when you marry. You get PRIVILEDGES. And, at this time, my society has decided those priviledges go to HETEROSEXUALS. I am opposed to any kind of priviledge, but we're in a sort of democracy, and my opinion isn't the only one.

By whom is the privilidge afforded? What justifiable reason is there for granting the privilidge to one group and not another? On polygamy, I am fine with that, so long as all of the parties understand fully what they are entering into. Animals and children, no, because they cannot be said to fully understand the implications of the marriage.

Already addressed this. I would not extend priviledges.

Do you REALLY want to live in a society where five 5 men, 9 women, and 2 transsexuals are married and have kids? Would you like this kind of thing? I wouldn't.

Only time will tell on that as there is currently no evidence either way. My personal opinion is that it will be difficult for the child, but will not 'scar them for life'. However, not allowing same-sex couples will not stop them from having children, it is already happening.

Not in the United States. A federal court uphold Florida's band on homosexuals adopting a few days ago. Kudos to them. I will not support putting children through that kind of torture.

Not quite the point I was making. To clarify, marriage gives the couple certain rights, I was arguing that long term couples, whatever their gender, should not have to get married in order to prove their love and should automatically be given the same respect under law as married couples.

NO. YOU ARE NOT LISTENING-- There are NO RIGHTS. GET IT? NO RIGHTS!

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by downquark1

If you're right and the biology issues are important, then the 'problem' can be fixed by hormone injections.

You cannot inject love with an injection downquark.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

You cannot inject love with an injection downquark.

Why?

That was the whole point you were getting at, wasn't it. The biological motherly instinct brought on by hormone release?

[Jerrek]

Why is it going to scar a child for life is an important question to ask, and I`m sorry, you are one of the people responsible for that scarring taking place, not the same-sex parents.

How am I responsible for scarring? By protecting an institution created for heterosexual couples? Damn right then.

If there weren`t people like you going around arguing the case that somehow this is unnatural and wrong then there wouldn`t be the context in which the child can be scarred.

I don't think that is true, but this is an opinion and I don't think we'll agree, so lets leave it there.

Don`t blame the parents for this problem, blame the people in society who kick up such a fuss about the issue and create a climate in which the child can be psychologically harmed.

I'm sorry, but no. I will not go down without kicking and screaming.

Dr Wadd, it seems we have a fundamental difference of opinion. We'll leave it at that.

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by downquark1

Why?

That was the whole point you were getting at, wasn't it. The biological motherly instinct brought on by hormone release?

How? I wasn't aware you can create instincts in a creature by injections. It would be interesting to see, but I don't think we've gained that level of knowledge over biology just yet.

[Jerrek]

i never disputed the fact that there isnt a bond between a mother and child,

Then why are you arguing?

that was not the point i was getting at...

It was the point that I was getting at.

however i had a problem with your original statement.... i think a child can be loved by same sex parents

I don't think I've said anything to the contrary.

a child needs and deserves love and i am not going to question where they get it from as long as they get it
i love my nephew with all my heart, i love him as though he was my own child....i have been part of his life from when he was a mere hour or so old...but biolgically he is not my child....does that retract from the love that i give him? NO

And I agree with you. I don't believe I've said anything to the contrary either.

and funnily enough i do know that i am a women, and just because it is someone male who is telling me does not change anything, you are coming across as increidbly patronising

Well I'm sorry about that. That was not my intent. I was trying to make a point that there is something lost in a same-sex "parent" "family" compared to a natural, heterosexual-relationship family.

[Bex]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

How? I wasn't aware you can create instincts in a creature by injections. It would be interesting to see, but I don't think we've gained that level of knowledge over biology just yet.

so loving a child is instinct then? ok right, so surely a same sex couple can have the same instinct to love a child?

[Bex]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

<snip snip>Then why are you arguing?
Well I'm sorry about that. That was not my intent. I was trying to make a point that there is something lost in a same-sex "parent" "family" compared to a natural, heterosexual-relationship family.

i am not arguing, this is what i call a discussion..

ok so tell me what IS lost?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by bexy

so loving a child is instinct then? ok right, so surely a same sex couple can have the same instinct to love a child?

Isn't saying something is an instinct just another way of saying we don't know what causes it?

[Bex]

Originally Posted by danielf

Isn't saying something is an instinct just another way of saying we don't know what causes it?

an instinct is something that we do naturally....some say that eating and sleeping are instincts, we feel hungry therefore we eat....but this is of course disputable, because we could say it was habitual behaviour

[Jerrek]

Originally Posted by bexy

so loving a child is instinct then? ok right, so surely a same sex couple can have the same instinct to love a child?

No. Not even a father have that mother-baby relationship.