Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK - Page 6

Ramrod · 01-02-2004, 23:08

This is heartening.

.....till you get to the 4th paragraph from the end

Xaccers · 01-02-2004, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

And so, because you lack knowledge, you should give them the benefit of the doubt, rather than implictly apply guilt by association.

But Russ didn't implicitly apply guilt by association.
*YOU* are the one applying the guilt by association by saying that because Russ didn't mention that *true* muslims don't also go around flying planes into buildings he is suggesting that *true* muslims *do* go flying planes into buildings.
*YOU* are the one who thinks that Russ was suggesting *true* muslims are terrorists, without asking him to clarify, and when he tells you that what you think about him on this subject is incorrect, you don't listen, instead you continue to accuse him.
Now, what happened to innocent until proven guilty Graham?
Russ no more thinks that *true* muslims are terrorists than you or I do.
You've got the wrong end of the stick.

02-02-2004, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

This is heartening.

.....till you get to the 4th paragraph from the end

Yes, but it's a start!

Remember it's still been less than a century since women got the vote in Great Britain! (1918)

PS thanks for clarifying the confusion.

02-02-2004, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Russ no more thinks that *true* muslims are terrorists than you or I do.

Ahem! I quote Russ from message #48:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

"The reason I don't extend that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

If they call themselves Christian, but they don't behave in the way that you think they do then they're not "True Christians", yet you don't seem to be able to extend that to Islam!)

to Islam is that I don't know enough about islam to make a reasonable point about them! Unlike many people on this site, if there is a religion or faith that I know little or nothing about, I don't make comments or assumptions about them!!!"

If he doesn't think it, he should extend the benefit of the doubt. However he does not, he just claims that he "doesn't know enough" to be able to make comments about them", which is a prima facie opportunity to extend said benefit!

Xaccers · 02-02-2004, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I disagree. There are no violent Christians. If a man (or woman) uses violence and professes to be a Christian, IMO that is not possible. What you do have is people who use violence in the name of Christianity, which is entirely different.

True Christians don't go around smacking people about, attacking people, or flying planes in to buildings.

So graham, your point is that because Russ didn't say that true muslims also don't go around smacking people about etc he's suggesting that they do?
I'd like to point out that Russ didn't say that jews, satanists, wickers, budhists, hindis, sikhs etc don't go around smacking people about etc.
Does that mean that Russ thinks that these people do?
If it doesn't mean that Russ thinks that these people do, what's different about islam, which Russ also didn't mention in his comment?
I'm a bit confuzzled mum.

And you can't attribute it to post 48 because you started on him before that.

Ramrod · 02-02-2004, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Remember it's still been less than a century since women got the vote in Great Britain! (1918)

Thats a very good point, though I suspect it will take muslims a couple of centuries till their women are more or less equal.

Nemesis · 02-02-2004, 13:06

Guys Guys Guys ...

Do we always have to resort to personal attacks in the religous threads.

Russ/Graham, you're rapidly winding each other up, and mis interperating what each other is saying .... in many ways you're both right in what you say .. but I ask politely that you take a step back from your anger and consider the others point of view.

Religion has a LOT to answer for on many levels, but many find solice within it, many don't too. There are fanatics who believe what they do is done within the auspices of their 'Lord'.

Religion and faith can be seen different ways by different people, in can mean many things to many people. Being a Christian is no different to being a Muslim etc etc ... at the end of the day we are still people.

I have watched the religious threads on here turn this way time and time again .... please remember it is not each other, or your personal beliefs that you should be discussing ... as that's personal, but the general state and way in which some see it.

Russ, you defend YOUR belief well, but it's yours ... not necessarily the view shared by others ....

Tolerance please and play nice

Russ · 02-02-2004, 13:10

And I've never denied anyone their right to disagree with my views.

Theodoric · 02-02-2004, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

And I've never denied anyone their right to disagree with my views.

May I be allowed to agree with you here. As far as I have seen, if anyone makes a point with a reasonable degree of politeness, then you respond equally politely.

03-02-2004, 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If it doesn't mean that Russ thinks that these people do, what's different about islam, which Russ also didn't mention in his comment?

Sorry, did you miss the bit where he brought up the subject of "flying planes into buildings"?

03-02-2004, 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

And I've never denied anyone their right to disagree with my views.

And I've never resorted to personal attacks.

Xaccers · 03-02-2004, 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Sorry, did you miss the bit where he brought up the subject of "flying planes into buildings"?

He made a factually accurate statement, in which he also mentioned christians not smacking people about etc, but *YOU* have decided (not Russ) that because he mentioned aeroplanes, he must therefore believe that Islam permits this.

Ramrod · 03-02-2004, 21:24

On that note:http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&sect...d=3&m=2&y=2004

03-02-2004, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

He made a factually accurate statement, in which he also mentioned christians not smacking people about etc, but *YOU* have decided (not Russ) that because he mentioned aeroplanes, he must therefore believe that Islam permits this.

Let me quote *you* from message #61:

"Using a bit of common sense, I can see that even though you refered to the people who flew the planes into the twin towers as muslim, you know that they were not following true islam, but some warped version of it."

Which is, of course, entirely correct.

However, were I to follow Russ' logic, I wouldn't be *able* to say that because "I don't know enough about Islam to be able to comment".

I don't *believe* that Islam permits this and I will give Islam and Muslims the benefit of the doubt unless I see some convincing evidence otherwise. That's all that Russ needs to do, instead of saying "Well I know that a 'True Christian' wouldn't do this, but I don't know about anyone else".

03-02-2004, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

On that note:http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&sect...d=3&m=2&y=2004

Interesting that it concludes:

"Their message urged Muslims to return to Islam and live in accordance with its teachings."

Does this include repressing women, chopping hands off theives and all the other things that people have mentioned in here...?!