MERGED: God (all threads)

Originally Posted by Nor

Did Jesus renounce Judaiasm then and become a Christian ? Also why do Jews believe in Jesus if he said their version was wrong ?

Jesus never became a Christian - 'Christian' means 'one who imitates Christ' (i.e. Jesus) ... actually the literal meaning is 'little Christ', and the term was coined as an insult to those who followed Jesus. Jesus was born a Jew, and in his teaching claimed to complete or fulfill certain promises made by that religion. The consequence of following what Jesus said brought his followers into conflict with those Jews who did not accept his right to 'complete' or 'fulfill' their religion. Those Jews still claim to be the true children of Abraham (they trace their religion back to him) today, whereas Jesus said those who are truly Abraham's children are those who live a life obedient to God, just like Abraham did.

Today, 'Messianic Jews', who believe in Jesus, maintain their cultural attachment to the Jewish way of life, but they have allowed their relationship with God and their worship of him to be completed in the way that Jesus taught.

Incidentally, to believe that someone existed in history is not the same as believing the things they claimed were true - I suspect there is a little confusion on that point here.

[Russ]

Did Jesus renounce Judaiasm then and become a Christian ? Also why do Jews believe in Jesus if he said their version was wrong ?

OK this will confuse you...Jesus was never a Christian! Christianity started soon after He returned to Big G

So god wasn't that bothered that these people were getting his teachings wrong?

He sent Jesus because someone had to die for our sins and He didn't want it to be us.

But if the bible is known for being made up by people with good intentions, and you are using the bible as the basis that jesus was sent by god, then your basis is flawed, as in all likelyhood, jesus was just another man making things up with good intentions (I don't recall any roman writings actually acknowledging his miracles, even if they do acknowledge he existed).

Put it this way - there are MANY Christians who pay little or no attention to the OT and actually buy Bibles with only the NT therein.

As for the Romans, it was against their better interested to write about Jesus in case people believed Him over their 'power', but His teachings and works were so incredible they had to mention Him.

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Truth in court is what a jury believes it is, therefore it's subjective to them.



Wow, generalisation or what! I don't reject it out of hand - some of the greatest scientists in the past were Christians, such as Isaac Newton. It's just when science says "50 million years ago this happened" I often wonder who was there to record it. Now if they said "50 million years ago WE BELIEVE this happened", I'd be much happier man


PS Towny's back - good to see the calvery's arrived

Scientists say, "we have evidence to say that this or that happened 50 millions years ago until someone else proves different". It is never a "belief". It can be a theory but if it is then they say so but to make a good theory you still have to be able to apply it to other things to back it up. You just can't make stuff up and say "this is so".
Religious people say "we believe this or that happened xxxx years ago and we don't care what anyone else says because that is what we believe no matter what anyone else says.....oh and we have this ambiguous storybook full of chinese whispers and contradictions to prove it".

PS BTW: It's "Cavalry" not "Calvery". Calvery is what illiterate american people say instead of the word cavalry. On the otherhand "Calvary" is a a place in Utah (a US state which is probably the worst possible place in the western world for a non-christian to live).

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

You're doing a really good job of destroying the credability of the bible Russ!


PS Yay Towny's here

One can't destroy its credibility because it does not really have any. However, one can increase the ambiguity though and Russ is certainly doing a fine job of that.

[Russ]

Scientists say, "we have evidence to say that this or that happened 50 millions years ago until someone else proves different".

Um no, they say "Stone age man burped then scratched his bum" instead of "It is believed Stone Age man etc".

Using scientific principles (which demands proof beyong reasonable doubt) is unlikely to produce anything which will sway the world's view of the Bible. But science and religion are made up of two very different foundations - proof and faith. Christians don't require proof, we go along with what we feel is right and more often than not, is something we have a personal experience of.

oh and we have this ambiguous storybook full of chinese whispers and contradictions to prove it

Just to clarify - I don't get my faith from the Bible - which is just a book. I neither worship it or kneel before it. My inspiration comes from God and through Jesus.

PS BTW: It's "Cavalry" not "Calvery". Calvery is what illiterate american people say instead of the word cavalry. On the otherhand "Calvary" is a a place in Utah (a US state which is probably the worst possible place in the western world for a non-christian to live).

oooOOOoooo!! And if a frog had wings then it wouldn't bump it's ass each time it hopped!

However, one can increase the ambiguity though and Russ is certainly doing a fine job of that.

Nah!!

[Nor]

I'm completely confused, gonna leave it for abit and have a beer

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Um no, they say "Stone age man burped then scratched his bum" instead of "It is believed Stone Age man etc".

Scientists say things like "the evidence points to stone age man burping and scratching his bum, here is the evidence:" the media reports "stone age man burped, scratched his bum, then invented page 3"

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Scientists say things like "the evidence points to stone age man burping and scratching his bum, here is the evidence:" the media reports "stone age man burped, scratched his bum, then invented page 3"

...then got a job working for 3

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ D

...then got a job working for 3

I suppose, in a small way, I do

[Russ]

I knew I needed one more reason to hate you

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ D

I knew I needed one more reason to hate you

But russ, you're a christian, so please forgive me

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Um no, they say "Stone age man burped then scratched his bum" instead of "It is believed Stone Age man etc".

Using scientific principles (which demands proof beyong reasonable doubt) is unlikely to produce anything which will sway the world's view of the Bible. But science and religion are made up of two very different foundations - proof and faith. Christians don't require proof, we go along with what we feel is right and more often than not, is something we have a personal experience of.


Just to clarify - I don't get my faith from the Bible - which is just a book. I neither worship it or kneel before it. My inspiration comes from God and through Jesus.

But you are quite happy to extract the bits you like from your bible as you see fit yet ignore the contradictions and the bizarre.
Without this bible there would not be any god or jesus as you know it so you must hold it in some esteem (worship) otherwise where did your faith come from?

[Russ]

But you are quite happy to extract the bits you like from your bible as you see fit yet ignore the contradictions and the bizarre.

A slight inaccuracy, I pay more attention to the NT than the OT.

Without this bible there would not be any god or jesus as you know it so you must hold it in some esteem (worship) otherwise where did your faith come from?

I respect it, but there is ONLY one thing I worship and that's God, the creator of all on Earth

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ D

I respect it, but there is ONLY one thing I worship and that's God, the creator of all on Earth

Who the bible portrays as a genocidal tyrant and not a nice bloke at all.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Who the bible portrays as a genocidal tyrant and not a nice bloke at all.

Now who's picking some bits out of the Bible??