career racism ?

kronas · 18-01-2004, 03:07

this news item, highlights the growing possible unfairness, in obtaining professorships in the US the report also states that the science secter is 'dominated' by 'white' males...........

a study conducted showed that 48% of bacherlor's degrees in math were female yet only 8.3% were professors

the research was done between 2000-2002 and took in to account the massachusetts institute of technology.

source CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/01....ap/index.html

i agree with the findings, in some secters, there are a proportionally high number of males or 'white' males, i concede that there could be a bias.

xaq141175 · 18-01-2004, 06:20

this sort of epidemiological study always gives me a chuckle when it's been politicised like this. It has some interesting perspectives for psychology though, i guess. it is normal for an individual to have a preference for the familier, it doesn't mean there is a conspiracy against woman and ethnic minoritys.

as for 'affirmative action' ... my mind in two courts about that.

the article seems to work on the premise that people want a career thats directly related to their qualifications, as if there is some linial relationship between them. maths is afterall, a basic skill required for many different career paths.

Russ · 18-01-2004, 09:30

There certainly is career racism around today. In today's Mail on Sunday there's a story about this guy who proved he had the qualifications to be a firefighter yet was constantly overlooked for the job in favour of ethnic applicants as well as women.

When the ethnic candidates failed the fitness or written exams, the passmarks were lowered to allow them in. One candidate was under 5 feet in height - too short to reach the ladder on the fire engine but in order to reach quotas, the fire service gave him a job.

He took them to a tribunal and won - thereby proving he was discriminated against on the grounds of race and gender.

Escapee · 18-01-2004, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

There certainly is career racism around today. In today's Mail on Sunday there's a story about this guy who proved he had the qualifications to be a firefighter yet was constantly overlooked for the job in favour of ethnic applicants as well as women.

When the ethnic candidates failed the fitness or written exams, the passmarks were lowered to allow them in. One candidate was under 5 feet in height - too short to reach the ladder on the fire engine but in order to reach quotas, the fire service gave him a job.

He took them to a tribunal and won - thereby proving he was discriminated against on the grounds of race and gender.

I guess that one made the newspaper because it is more unusual for a complaint to be taken seriously when it's from a white person.
I guess that statement sounds racist, but I dont mean it to be it's just a fact.

One of my ex-girlfriends worked with a woman of caribbean origin, there were some big changes in the organisiation that they worked for and she got treated a bit more equal than anyone else because she was threatning to complain about racism. This particular woman was known for being lazy in work and had a history of receiving warnings for this reason and others, the employers were scared of her though because every time they gave her a warning she claimed that it was for racist reasons.

I heard another one from some ntl field techs about the police stopping everyone on a stretch of road in Newport to check if they had been consuming alcohol. One of the ntl techs is from a middle east country and was the only one to be waved straight through without having to wind down his window! The guy telling me said all the other ntl techs driving down that road were stopped.

I believe to stop racisim we also have to treat everyone the same, the guy in question could of been well over the limit but he doesn't drink.

But the fact that he doesn't drink is not the point is it.

xaq141175 · 19-01-2004, 06:18

positive discrimination is this 'affirmative action' i mentioned earlier. i thought we were supposed to be moving away from this way of thinking. i'm disappointed.

i'm in two minds about it because ethnic minoritys have been descriminated against in the past and that had a major impact on thier social integration, effectively isolating them. some form of compensation would seem to make sense, at first.

what we have now is the legacy of that time, with ghettoisation and other cultural developments within pluralethnic communitys. i do not believe that racism is typically a major problem anymore so 'affirmative action's' relevance has deminished.

'affirmative action' is a form of 'top down design' for society. this is very dangerous, everytime it's happened in the past it has resulted in massive social unrest as it creates an adversarial relationship between different community's of a society due to the rapid change it brings.

change has to happen slowly if social cohesion is to be maintained. i say let ethnic communitys integrate naturally, at their own rate, without political meddling.

Jerrek · 19-01-2004, 13:42

Anyone for affirmative action recognize visibile minorities and women as inferior in need of special regulations and quotas.

I do not see them as inferior, hence, no special rules.

Popeye · 19-01-2004, 13:53

there was a story in Wales a few years ago

not sure how true it was

but it was about a lifegaurd in the 'then was' empire pool

someone was in distress/drowning in the pool and the guard was just standing there

why don't you go to help? a bystander asked

I can't swim - he replied

how come you got the job then? the bystander retorted

I can speak welsh - he replied

19-01-2004, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye

there was a story in Wales a few years ago [...] someone was in distress/drowning in the pool and the guard was just standing there

Alternatively:

Quote:

Why don't you go to help? a bystander asked

I can speak welsh - he replied -

but that guy's calling for help in English...!

Russ · 19-01-2004, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye

there was a story in Wales a few years ago

not sure how true it was

but it was about a lifegaurd in the 'then was' empire pool

someone was in distress/drowning in the pool and the guard was just standing there

why don't you go to help? a bystander asked

I can't swim - he replied

how come you got the job then? the bystander retorted

I can speak welsh - he replied

I won't dispute you heard that story but I'd consider it to be HIGHLY unlikely.

Stuartbe · 19-01-2004, 18:07

I am discrimated against as I like to to visit the coffee machine !!

Nor · 19-01-2004, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

I won't dispute you heard that story but I'd consider it to be HIGHLY unlikely.

Aye, I mean who speaks Welsh these days

Stuartbe · 19-01-2004, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nor

Aye, I mean who speaks Welsh these days

You need to if you want to find that welsh railway station.. No I am not going to make a fool of myself by trying to type it !

Russ · 20-01-2004, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuartbe

You need to if you want to find that welsh railway station.. No I am not going to make a fool of myself by trying to type it !

You mean Llanfair PG, which is what the locals call it, only tourists with large day-glo rucksacks call it be it's full name

kronas · 22-01-2004, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by xaq141175

change has to happen slowly if social cohesion is to be maintained. i say let ethnic communitys integrate naturally, at their own rate, without political meddling.

i have agreed with much of your post, however i will focus on this part.

i stand to agree with you that 'intergration' happens and is slow, but i know of people who are happy to work with anyone (regardless of race colour or age) but when it comes to chohesive relations with certain members of other staff its then a diffarent story....

xaq141175 · 24-01-2004, 06:41

yeah ... and i'd just like to add, i'd import a civilised immigrant anyday if that meant we could export people who repeatedly commit violent crime.