council tax to be replaced by local derivatives ?

[kronas]

the money, already obtained and spent by the local council here is not specifically used much, its there to provide questionable services, and even then some of the services that were once free such as household items removal now costs you...

*wonders where the money goes

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by kronas

the local governments association, is set to call for a reform of the council tax, affectively abolishing it, and introducing local taxes designed to benefit specific areas of each council.

under the proposals, the association calls for local taxes such as congestion charges, sales taxes, house sales tax, and others to be regulated seperately by local councils and also introduce a more tiered system of 'house banding'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3397835.stm

source: BBC news

i just see this as another money making excercise, perpitrated to tax us even heavier then before but you could argue it could allow funds for local councils 'extra' funds, to be allocated to areas that really do need the money.......

Well as the thread starter and such a young one, I doubt very much whether you have yet to endure the process of paying this tax yet.

Your sentiments and ideas are in the right place but you have to learn this is just another step on the ladder and enduring the joys of becoming a home owner.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by carlingman

Well as the thread starter and such a young one, I doubt very much whether you have yet to endure the process of paying this tax yet.

thanks for being very observant

your point was ?

just because im young, does not give you the right to be judging my view based on your ageistic argument............

Originally Posted by carlingman

Your sentiments and ideas are in the right place but you have to learn this is just another step on the ladder and enduring the joys of becoming a home owner.

i know how hard it is, would i comment if i did not have a clue.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by kronas

the money, already obtained and spent by the local council here is not specifically used much, its there to provide questionable services, and even then some of the services that were once free such as household items removal now costs you...

*wonders where the money goes

Local council money tends to be used on the favoured projects of councillors. Quite a bit of it goes on their expenses even if that means a fact-finding tour to the Bahamas. To be fair some councillors and councils do try to keep expenses to a minimum.

Council overheads have increased in line with wage and salary increases. In effect councils have to spend more because of the pay of people employed by them and we foot the bill. Local councils are notorious for overstaffing, instead of looking at more effective and more efficient ways of getting jobs done. The same thing can be said about national government too and a lot of publicly owned organisations.

It's also true to say that there is a massive lack of common sense and creativity in the thinking at all levels of these organisations. My local council redeveloped the town hall putting in lots of extra features except of course a multi-storey car park to deal with increased demand for car-parking caused by the development in an area where existing parking facilities are inadequate.

The problem in this country is that we are pricing ourselves out of the market with the result that employers are taking their business overseas. Look at the new call centres in India and at the international companies who close down factories in the UK and transfer the work abroad.

Sadly, this government has concentrated on getting pay UP instead of going for getting prices DOWN. It hasn't focused on increasing efficiency by looking at better, cheaper methods of getting things done. Instead more staff are taken on to do work that could be done by fewer people using improved methods at cheaper cost and if you follow that to its logical conclusion we will have an endless pattern of increased tax bills both locally and nationally.

It also means that, over time, more companies will either go bust or shed workers or move to a cheaper labour market. More people will be out of work and those in work will be overworked. Just look, for example, how long the queues are in high street shops as few staff struggle to deal with the large numbers of customers waiting to pay for goods.

The politicians, aka the 'fat cats of government', will be OK because they can charge everything they do to you and me. And it's time that changed.

[Julian]

Originally Posted by ntluser

<snip> The politicians, aka the 'fat cats of government', will be OK because they can charge everything they do to you and me. And it's time that changed.

It is this part that really winds me up - specifically in regard to pensions. While the rest of the country watches their pension funds being raped by Brown and collapsing due to stock market fluctuations, the civil servants just charge the shortfall to the hapless taxpayers. It stinks.

Their funds should be forced to suffer market forces like everybody elses.

[trebor]

Originally Posted by ntluser

Council overheads have increased in line with wage and salary increases. In effect councils have to spend more because of the pay of people employed by them and we foot the bill. Local councils are notorious for overstaffing, instead of looking at more effective and more efficient ways of getting jobs done. The same thing can be said about national government too and a lot of publicly owned organisations.

I can agree with everything you have said except the above,

I wish may wages/ income had risen by 500% over the past few years in line with the rises in coucil tax.

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by kronas

thanks for being very observant

your point was ?

just because im young, does not give you the right to be judging my view based on your ageistic argument............



i know how hard it is, would i comment if i did not have a clue.

My point was nothing like you have twisted it into being.

Now then your second comment, tell me where did I judge you or give an ageistic argument.

Lighten up I used a smiley and agreed in part to your original post.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by ntluser

Local council money tends to be used on the favoured projects of councillors. Quite a bit of it goes on their expenses even if that means a fact-finding tour to the Bahamas. To be fair some councillors and councils do try to keep expenses to a minimum.

That's true. One council I know of spent thousands sending councillors to Germany to look at a Road system, when a similar system was in use in the next borough in England. That sort of wastage is disgusting and should be stopped.

Council overheads have increased in line with wage and salary increases. In effect councils have to spend more because of the pay of people employed by them and we foot the bill. Local councils are notorious for overstaffing, instead of looking at more effective and more efficient ways of getting jobs done. The same thing can be said about national government too and a lot of publicly owned organisations.

Actually, local councils are now required to put most of the services they offer out to tender. In a lot of cases, overstaffing is not the problem. Inadequate controls on contractors is. Having dealt with contractors in the NHS, I can categorically state that a lot of contractors overcharge for their services. This is also a problem in Central Government

It's also true to say that there is a massive lack of common sense and creativity in the thinking at all levels of these organisations. My local council redeveloped the town hall putting in lots of extra features except of course a multi-storey car park to deal with increased demand for car-parking caused by the development in an area where existing parking facilities are inadequate.

Not all local councils are that bad. My local council had a new Civic Centre built complete with various meeting halls etc, & a multi storey car park. It's rumoured it was built for free in return for them giving land and planning permission to a developer so he could build a housing estate. Of course, that is only a rumour and I don't know if it is true.

The problem in this country is that we are pricing ourselves out of the market with the result that employers are taking their business overseas. Look at the new call centres in India and at the international companies who close down factories in the UK and transfer the work abroad.

Sadly, this government has concentrated on getting pay UP instead of going for getting prices DOWN. It hasn't focused on increasing efficiency by looking at better, cheaper methods of getting things done. Instead more staff are taken on to do work that could be done by fewer people using improved methods at cheaper cost and if you follow that to its logical conclusion we will have an endless pattern of increased tax bills both locally and nationally.

As I understand it, the main cost for most people is simply having a roof over their heads. Maybe if (and I know I will get flamed for this) house prices weren't rising so fast, the main reason for pay & price rises would disappear..

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by trebor

I can agree with everything you have said except the above,

I wish may wages/ income had risen by 500% over the past few years in line with the rises in coucil tax.

The problem with that is that council tax is the tax generated to cover the cost of services provided by the council. If you give council workers a massive pay rise, the council tax goes up massively too.To be fair, council tax also rises if your council wastes money on ill thought-out, expensive schemes.

Councils need to find more efficient ways of getting things done, which allows the workers to receive a fair wage without overburdening council tax payers.And councils need to ensure that any projects they dream up are wanted by local people and are going to give them long term benefits.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by scastle

That's true. One council I know of spent thousands sending councillors to Germany to look at a Road system, when a similar system was in use in the next borough in England. That sort of wastage is disgusting and should be stopped.


Actually, local councils are now required to put most of the services they offer out to tender. In a lot of cases, overstaffing is not the problem. Inadequate controls on contractors is. Having dealt with contractors in the NHS, I can categorically state that a lot of contractors overcharge for their services. This is also a problem in Central Government

Not all local councils are that bad. My local council had a new Civic Centre built complete with various meeting halls etc, & a multi storey car park. It's rumoured it was built for free in return for them giving land and planning permission to a developer so he could build a housing estate. Of course, that is only a rumour and I don't know if it is true.

As I understand it, the main cost for most people is simply having a roof over their heads. Maybe if (and I know I will get flamed for this) house prices weren't rising so fast, the main reason for pay & price rises would disappear..

I think you make a number of fair points in particular about not all councils being the same and your comment about contractors.

I also agree that the cost of housing does fuel demands for higher wages and it's something that the government should address. Abolishing mortgage relief was a great saving to the government but simply put a great burden back onto homeowners. Unfortunately, I don't see the government bringing it back nor do I see them introducing some form of rent relief for people who have to rent because they can't buy a home.