Are 'warez' really theft?

[Bifta]

Another good thing with PC games is the online CD key detection, i.e. there is no way and never will be any way you can play online without having a valid key, games are increasingly going this way with MMORPG's being released in droves.

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Another good thing with PC games is the online CD key detection, i.e. there is no way and never will be any way you can play online without having a valid key, games are increasingly going this way with MMORPG's being released in droves.

<Cough>Unless you use a different server like the gamespy ones<cough>

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Sociable

<Cough>Unless you use a different server like the gamespy ones<cough>

You can't with MMORPGs
Things like earth and beyond, or star wars galaxies

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

You can't with MMORPGs
Things like earth and beyond, or star wars galaxies

I understand certain warez organisations have set up emulated servers, but they are grossly underpowered at the moment.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by downquark1

I understand certain warez organisations have set up emulated servers, but they are grossly underpowered at the moment.

Would be a bit hard unless they can break into the genuine servers and copy the developer's code every time there is a patch or game update though.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Would be a bit hard unless they can break into the genuine servers and copy the developer's code every time there is a patch or game update though.

Yep, I've only heard rumours - even the rumours admit they haven't done it well and and it not even serious enough for the companies to act yet.
http://www.undergroundguides.com/everquestemu.htm

[mrm1]

Heres a pause for thought, all hyperthetical of coarse.

Say I was to write a simple program that randomly filled memory with different values. Then I was to execute the random code produced in that memory. Eventually the law of averages guarantees the code produced will be an exact copy of some copyrighted software. (though this would probably take tens to hundreds of years, or only a few min's, as I said it is all hyperthetical).

How would the law stand here. I havnt copied anyones work, downloaded any software, all the code would have been randomly generated by a piece of software I had writen.

This is probably where software patents stand in, but if I do not plan to distribute the said code, then even software patents dont come in to it...........


Just a thought ?

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by mrm1

How would the law stand here. I havnt copied anyones work, downloaded any software, all the code would have been randomly generated by a piece of software I had writen.

Just a thought ?

I think if there was a patent on that code, then to use it you would have to pay the royalty fees. A short while ago, there was a major who-ha about European software patents, many people (including me) opposed them because it is so easy for two people to quite independantly write the same piece of code without any copying etc. It basically stunts the growth of software.

The mechanism you described is sometimes used in AI, it only produces really really simple programs though

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by mrm1

Heres a pause for thought, all hyperthetical of coarse.

Say I was to write a simple program that randomly filled memory with different values. Then I was to execute the random code produced in that memory. Eventually the law of averages guarantees the code produced will be an exact copy of some copyrighted software. (though this would probably take tens to hundreds of years, or only a few min's, as I said it is all hyperthetical).

How would the law stand here. I havnt copied anyones work, downloaded any software, all the code would have been randomly generated by a piece of software I had writen.

This is probably where software patents stand in, but if I do not plan to distribute the said code, then even software patents dont come in to it...........


Just a thought ?

I believe the infinate number of monkies that eventually typed the works of William Shakespeare ended up defending an infinate number of law suits issued by an infinate number of lawyers on behalf of Bill Gates who assumed he held all rights to everything cos he once sold a copy of "Word" to guy called Bill and insisted that all rights to anything produced anywhere must belong to him as he only ever sells things under licence so nobody else in the universe could ever own anything themselves.

[Fawkes]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Not sure if that's sarcasm but that does sum up how I feel about it, it's up to the individual what they do, if they get caught and fined then they can't blame anyone but themselves. However, people that moan about new anti-theft measures in software or complain about Palladium or the DMCA saying it's an infringement of civil liberties really need to take a step back and realise why they're introduced.

I'm not disagreeing that some people just want to cry civil liberties and continue with their illegal ways but the DMCA has been misused or used in a way that was not originally intended by many companies. See this report from the EFF for more information.

The price for copyright reform must not be our digital freedom!

[Tricky]

At a risk of being flamed to death

[DON RETARDANT SUIT]How many times have you bought some software, game, video etc. Only to find it's pants - Never? or many times? - I know I certainly have and wish you could return it. Who remembers "returns will only be replaced with the same title!". Game stores are a credit in their return policy as this allows people to "try" a game out and if they don't like it return it. When will all stores do this? [/REMOVES SUIT]

I've got games/videos/DVD's/CD's that have only been used once (some not even the whole way through) before I've decided its naff.

Piracy will never end, yes the protection will become more complicated but the methods used to crack it will improve. The downside to this is that prices are driven up to compensate the number of copies on the market against the legit ones. The things that annoys me is the standard price of things £16-£20 for a DVD, £30-£35 for a console game, surely the costs for the production of all titles is NOT the same and neither is the quality therefore why should we the consumer pay the same.

Gets down of soap box!

Originally Posted by Fawkes

I'm not disagreeing that some people just want to cry civil liberties and continue with their illegal ways but the DMCA has been misused or used in a way that was not originally intended by many companies. See this report from the EFF for more information.

The price for copyright reform must not be our digital freedom!

Seems to me that all they will achieve is an isolation of the US if they continue to misuse the DMCA.The rest of the world will just ignore them and carry on in it's own normal way.

[SOSAGES]

ed2k://|file|Michael_Moore_about_filesharing.avi|5705728| 6D501AACE1786A1DFE3EA307A3BF4442|/

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Tricky

At a risk of being flamed to death

[DON RETARDANT SUIT]How many times have you bought some software, game, video etc. Only to find it's pants - Never? or many times? - I know I certainly have and wish you could return it. Who remembers "returns will only be replaced with the same title!". Game stores are a credit in their return policy as this allows people to "try" a game out and if they don't like it return it. When will all stores do this? [/REMOVES SUIT]

I've got games/videos/DVD's/CD's that have only been used once (some not even the whole way through) before I've decided its naff.

Piracy will never end, yes the protection will become more complicated but the methods used to crack it will improve. The downside to this is that prices are driven up to compensate the number of copies on the market against the legit ones. The things that annoys me is the standard price of things £16-£20 for a DVD, £30-£35 for a console game, surely the costs for the production of all titles is NOT the same and neither is the quality therefore why should we the consumer pay the same.

Gets down of soap box!

I'm not going to flame you, but I will say, if you bought a game/video/dvd or application that was crap then you should have either bought it from Game (and taken it back) or read some reviews first.

Originally Posted by SOSAGES

ed2k://|file|Michael_Moore_about_filesharing.avi|5705728| 6D501AACE1786A1DFE3EA307A3BF4442|/

What is this supposed to be