[Merged] Spam/Viruses on ntl.

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by s1lv3r

Not quite right i'm afraid.

Bounces should always go to the originator, any bounce that doesn't do so is incorrectly configured as you can't presume a postmaster account is active or available on every mail server there is.

The reason it looks like the bounce has gone to postmaster is usually because
the postmaster account can be configured (or not) to recieve copies of every NDR (non delivery report) on the domain it serves.

Mis-addressed email should always get an NDR in reply to the originator.

I administer an exchange server and can vouch for the fact that postmaster accounts can be totally flooded.. but, if configured correctly your admins should be able to check it easily, as most of the traffic is caused by NDR reports that are automated and can be filtered out.

Exactly m8 - " any bounce that doesn't do so is incorrectly configured "

You are counting on the mail server being correctly configured and as you and I both well know - this is rarely the case. Have you seen how some of these bounce messages are worded (when they do come through) I have trouble understanding them so I am not sure how a normal EU is going to cope !!!

The point I am trying to make is that there is allways a risk that genuine email will get blocked. Even if the delivery rcpt goes back to the user they are going to have to resend. What hapens if the server is still blacklisted ? It comes back again. By the time the user actualy gets to send the mail it about a week old.

Until there is a way to be 100% sure that a mail is spam then we cant bounce them only flag them. An average user can cope with setting up a rule in outlook to move them to a diferent folder.

I dont know why everyone does not start to use digital sigs. If we all used them then spam could be blocked - block all mails that dont have a sig on them !!!

There simply is not an out of the box solution to spam. We need to track the spammers and boil them in oil. The methods discused here only deal with the problem and not the cause.

We must not forget that this thread is about NTL blocking mail. If people like you and I ran all the mail servers we would not have all the problems we have now. Do you trust NTL to manage blocking correctly - I dont !!!!

[Sociable]

The real problem is the swamping of the networks with spam and flagging "suspect" mail the way you are suggesting does absolutely nothing at all to address that problem at all.

Anything which simply makes it less productive for the spammers to use known tactics will help reduce the traffic significantly.

Simple fact remains until not just NTL but all ISP's take some direct action the fundamental cause will not be removed.

That "cause" is just how easy it is for spammers to operate as things stand now.

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by Sociable

The real problem is the swamping of the networks with spam and flagging "suspect" mail the way you are suggesting does absolutely nothing at all to address that problem at all.

Anything which simply makes it less productive for the spammers to use known tactics will help reduce the traffic significantly.

Simple fact remains until not just NTL but all ISP's take some direct action the fundamental cause will not be removed.

That "cause" is just how easy it is for spammers to operate as things stand now.

Im not sugesting that flaging is a perfect solution only a way for users to filter the crap in there mailbox.

The problem with quick fixes like ip blocking ect is that they are floored. The source ip and server on a mail can be spoofed. This type of mail would go right through ip blacklist filters. You may make life slightly more inconvenient for the spammer but you create other problems at the same time.

The solution lies with the IPS's and can be solved simply.

Block spoofed packets at the gateway. This can be done on a cisco router for example by adding only 3 lines to an acl. Spammers will then only be able to send mail that can be traced so they can be dealt with.

Asuming that ntl are using ip based blacklists (we dont know this for sure) there will be no protection against mail that is sent via trojan relays and spoofed ip mails.

The world's governments and leaders need to get of there backside and do something about this before the net becomes unusable. This is not for from hapening.

You could always change your email address to :-

dgr474%^^%ghghgG^DhgbiyGD^t@fjhdkjhfkjdhssdh232.co m

I cant see any spam software guesing that one !!
It would be bit of a mare for my granny to remember though

[threadbare]

so lets face it then, now that the poll has swung the other way, ntl cant win. they try and reduce the amount of spam clogging up the mail servers - which is supposed to improve the email service and ppl winge about it. Having said that there are far fewer ppl winging about this than if there is a massive mail outage. So who do you think they are going to listen to? ppl moaning about mail server problems or ppl moaning about email filtering?

it's a no win senario for ntl, but email filtering is here. it has obvoiusly had a positive impact (judging by my mailbox) so it's likely that it is here to stay.

edit: typos

[greencreeper]

I can't believe that 90% of voters want to trust NTL with the responsibility of handling spam Have you forgotten that NTL always makes a mess of what ever it does - nothing ever goes right? This site is stuffed with complaints about NTL yet most of you are still quite happy to trust them.

I voted to leave spam alone. Not because I want spam left alone but because I want NTL to leave spam alone. I know they'd made a mess of it - bouncing loads of legit emails or marking them as spam. At the moment I use SpamPal and it's regex filter. All my spam is caught with very few false positives.

We should be stopping the spam at source before it's even sent rather than relying on ISPs to configure their networks to block it. That approach doesn't make sense and isn't a long-term solution.


john

[threadbare]

Originally Posted by greencreeper

We should be stopping the spam at source before it's even sent rather than relying on ISPs to configure their networks to block it. That approach doesn't make sense and isn't a long-term solution.
john

spam isnt going to go away - it is pretty much here to stay. ntl have the right idea, other ISP's use similar methods to block spam.

[greencreeper]

Originally Posted by threadbare

spam isnt going to go away - it is pretty much here to stay. ntl have the right idea, other ISP's use similar methods to block spam.

Well that's the sort of attitude that allow spammers to keep on spamming If NTL could guarantee that they would never delete an email as spam and would only mark emails as spam and would be at least 90% accurate in doing so, then I would be happy. What I know for certain is that if and when NTL start dealing with spam there will be people on here complaining about lost emails and/or emails marked as spam. And it'll be the same people who wanted NTL to deal with spam. NTL make a mess of everything. This we know. So why people want NTL to manage their inboxes I don't know!


john

[threadbare]

Originally Posted by greencreeper

Well that's the sort of attitude that allow spammers to keep on spamming If NTL could guarantee that they would never delete an email as spam and would only mark emails as spam and would be at least 90% accurate in doing so, then I would be happy. What I know for certain is that if and when NTL start dealing with spam there will be people on here complaining about lost emails and/or emails marked as spam. And it'll be the same people who wanted NTL to deal with spam. NTL make a mess of everything. This we know. So why people want NTL to manage their inboxes I don't know!


john

ntl have had email filtering in place for a month now.

Attitude is not going to stop spam, legistlation is not going to stop spam, laws are not going to stop spam. blocking it from entering the network will, however, stop most of it

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by greencreeper

Well that's the sort of attitude that allow spammers to keep on spamming
john

Sorry John I disagree completely it is ISP's not doing anything that allows spammers to thrive.

Marking e-mails as spam but still allowing them through the network does nothing to reduce the traffic at all even if it would make it slightly easier for users to dump the content the issue is about getting this traffic completely off the net in the first place.

As most spammers make sure they stay away from locations where they could be dealt with at source the only possible solution is for ISP's to deal with it server side. Once spammers know their efforts wont get results they may well be forced to change their ways.

As for trust in NTL they may mess up now and again but overall they are managing to maintain the network at a reasonable level for the vast majority of users. So no, I wont be back here complaining if a few odd emails get caught by any new system I will be praising them for the efforts they are making and trying to work with them to resolve any issues that arrise in a constructive way instead.

[greencreeper]

Originally Posted by Sociable

As for trust in NTL they may mess up now and again but overall they are managing to maintain the network at a reasonable level for the vast majority of users. So no, I wont be back here complaining if a few odd emails get caught by any new system I will be praising them for the efforts they are making and trying to work with them to resolve any issues that arrise in a constructive way instead.

Your faith is admirable

If NTL start bouncing emails because they've decided they are spam, then I'll be forced to look elsewhere for an email provider. I simply cannot have important emails, such as those related to job hunting, being deleted. And I don't trust NTL to do anything right.

And how do you propose email senders should contact NTL to have their blacklisted email address/server removed from the list? NTL's own customers have trouble contacting NTL and getting them to do anything, so I can hardly see non-customers getting very far when it comes to being un-blacklisted!

And what about the scenario where someone's email address/server keeps on been re-blacklisted? The sender will just give up trying to get their address un-blacklisted.


john

[Frank]

Originally Posted by greencreeper

I voted to leave spam alone. Not because I want spam left alone but because I want NTL to leave spam alone. I know they'd made a mess of it - bouncing loads of legit emails or marking them as spam..

Know exactly what you mean, there should be the option of a user controlled server side spam filter.

Originally Posted by greencreeper

At the moment I use SpamPal and it's regex filter. All my spam is caught with very few false positives.

Well yes, but you then have to download the e-mail and run the filters on it. What you really want is something like SpamAssassin which does the same as SpamPal but on the server side.

SpamAssassin has given me no false positives and has missed a tiny amount of spam, which probably could have been caught if I had tweaked the settings.

Originally Posted by greencreeper

And how do you propose email senders should contact NTL to have their blacklisted email address/server removed from the list? NTL's own customers have trouble contacting NTL and getting them to do anything, so I can hardly see non-customers getting very far when it comes to being un-blacklisted!

Exactly!

[Sociable]

My guess is they will find it as easy as NTL themselves did when they needed to get themselves off just such a blacklist in the past.

Out of interest you seem to be saying you are an NTL customer right now so how does that square with your total lack of trust in their ability as a supplier right now?

Just wondering.

[threadbare]

Originally Posted by greencreeper

Your faith is admirable

If NTL start bouncing emails because they've decided they are spam, then I'll be forced to look elsewhere for an email provider. I simply cannot have important emails, such as those related to job hunting, being deleted. And I don't trust NTL to do anything right.

And how do you propose email senders should contact NTL to have their blacklisted email address/server removed from the list? NTL's own customers have trouble contacting NTL and getting them to do anything, so I can hardly see non-customers getting very far when it comes to being un-blacklisted!

And what about the scenario where someone's email address/server keeps on been re-blacklisted? The sender will just give up trying to get their address un-blacklisted.


john

i would try the proper channels if server or email address is being blacklisted all the time then the owner of the address/server should take more steps to secure their servers or stop sedning spam!!

[greencreeper]

Originally Posted by Sociable

My guess is they will find it as easy as NTL themselves did when they needed to get themselves off just such a blacklist in the past.

Out of interest you seem to be saying you are an NTL customer right now so how does that square with your total lack of trust in their ability as a supplier right now?

Just wondering.

There's no comparison between a major company making a request and a single user. The former has much more muscle.

I'm about 3/4 of the way through the minimum 12 month contract I've had two encounters with customer service. They still have my address wrong AFAIK - I don't get any letters from them so how would I know The second encounter involved sending out two engineers just to replace a stolen cable modem and fit a new connector on the end of the cable. Modem didn't work of course because the old modem was still registered - you can only have one modem. So more calls to customer service. The woman I spoke to sounded terrible - very depressed and a heavy smoker judging by the voice. It makes you wonder. The new modem cost me something like £80, which I had to claim back from my insurance agency. I wasn't amused. Then there was (is) the email chaos. Then the DNS chaos. I've now discovered that the transparent cache doesn't work properly neither, but from what I can gather I should be more surprised if it did


john

[greencreeper]

Originally Posted by threadbare

i would try the proper channels if server or email address is being blacklisted all the time then the owner of the address/server should take more steps to secure their servers or stop sedning spam!!

Assuming of course that the person/company has done something wrong and that NTL hasn't just blacklisted them by accident or on a whim or at the request of a muppet user (if the blacklist is public).


john