Brexit (Old)

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Democracy? If you want that then respect the democratic vote of the referendum.

Democracy is a one time thing now, is it? Hmmmm, interesting

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Companies don't plan after the fact, whilst the predominant factors are the Chinese market and Diesel sales. It would be naive to suggest that Brexit plays no part in this.

---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 ----------

BREAKING: May receives letters of reassurance from EU, however, no changes to agreement

SOURCE: The Independent via Apple News

Around 25% of their sales were to China and then that figure halved. The China sales figures also dropped for other manufacturers.


90% of their vehicles run on diesel, so the diesel debacle will have a disproportionate effect.

Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) will today announce it is cutting up to 5,000 jobs from its 40,000 strong UK workforce.
Management, marketing and administrative roles are expected to be hardest hit, but some production staff may also be affected.

So production is going to be the least affected.


The removal of the "backstop" is still in the one-sided gift of the EU. "Temporary" can still mean "Indefinite", EG the Barnett formula was only supposed to be temporary, but more than 40 years on it is still in place with NO legal basis. Probably more examples out there.

---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 17:59 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Democracy is a one time thing now, is it? Hmmmm, interesting

It there's only one vote on an issue, then yes. Any trampling on the democratic vote is being done NOW and is extremely scary and sinister in it's manifestations.

---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:05 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

It could all have been avoided if those perfidious Brexiteers hadn’t used it as an audition for Conservative Party leader and bottomed out our preferred option for leaving before the referendum.

The underlying problem is the overwhelming weak leadership from TM, which meant the EU can get away with whatever it wants.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Civil war?

Nah, no chance. All you will get are a few "oldflakes" uploading angry videos to YouTube saying that they were "betrayed".

Now back to the real world ..

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Nah, no chance. All you will get are a few "oldflakes" uploading angry videos to YouTube saying that they were "betrayed".

Now back to the real world ..

And that seems to justify trampling over democracy? IE because they can get away with it?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by nomadking

And that seems to justify trampling over democracy? IE because they can get away with it?

I'm watching a program about a bloke who did that in the 1940's

[Angua]

Originally Posted by nomadking

And that seems to justify trampling over democracy? IE because they can get away with it?

Would it be undemocratic if people voted by a majority for a no deal Brexit?

What we are being offered by this government does not seem to be what the majority voted for, how democratic is that?

No one seems to care about the lies told in order to sway the electorate. Is that democracy or undue outside influence, who knows? It does feel like some are just putting their fingers in their ears, singing "la la la, I can't hear you" because they don't want to hear any dissent.

[heero_yuy]

When the referendum was held there was no mention of Hokey Kokey "deals" just a simple stay or leave. It's May muddying the waters that's created so much grief. If planning was underway with a transition over the last 2 1/2 years for a clean break we'd not be in the state we're now in.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Exactly. Parliament is taking control and the country decided to elect a Parliament of majority Remain MPs in 2017.

Originally Posted by Mick

No they did not at all.
Why do you keep making your own stuff up as you go along?!?
That is totally inaccurate.

Parliament consists of a majority of Remain MPs and all were elected. It's entirely correct.

Originally Posted by Mick

The facts actually are: They elected for parties which stood on manifestos for leave!!!

That's also correct, except of course for the smaller parties.

Originally Posted by Mick

80% of the electorate voted for leave parties in 2017 - to say otherwise is a utter lie and distortion of the truth.

No one is saying otherwise least of all you or me.

My key point is that we have a Parliament of Remain MPs. The electorate can reasonably expect them to pass a reasonable Brexit deal. It absolutely cannot and does not want them to pass a no-deal Brexit.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by nomadking

And that seems to justify trampling over democracy? IE because they can get away with it?

We just disagree on the definition of Democracy. You will have to get used to this I am afraid ...

[Hom3r]

I hope we don't have a general election.

I will NEVER vote for labour while JC is involved with them.

He's seems only interested in blocking brexit so he can try and get an election.

Plus my Tory MP is a remainer so again going against what my town voted which was to leave.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I'm watching a program about a bloke who did that in the 1940's

Is he the chap who, at best, misled and, at worst, brainwashed the electorate to believe the people responsible for his nation's woes were in fact innocent of these accusations.

He is also the chap who controlled the media that over a period of years, fed constant lies and propaganda to the public to make them think what was best for them was, it turned out, the worse of all decisions.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I'm watching a program about a bloke who did that in the 1940's

So which democratic vote did he ignore? It was the German Parliament that gave him any powers.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

We just disagree on the definition of Democracy. You will have to get used to this I am afraid ...

How many definitions are there?

[1andrew1]

Great article here on the difficulties that countries have in concluding trade deals. Google "Brexiters’ delusions on trade die hard"
These include the US insistence on opening up the NHS, its current protectionist President and requirements to reduce food standards; China's security issues; India's requirement to ease visa restrictions to work or study in the UK and Australia's tough stance and ability to spot weakness.
https://www.ft.com/content/d543bdd4-...e-f4351a53f1c3

---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:27 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

How many definitions are there?

There's clearly more than one as your exchange with jfman shows. How much does it matter to you?

Originally Posted by nomadking

So which democratic vote did he ignore? It was the German Parliament that gave him any powers.

With a lot of intimidation and arresting of members of that parliament. Hitler wasn’t keen on democracy...