Brexit (Old)

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Chris

Im curious whether you have a credible source for this claim or if it’s just the usual remainer wishful thinking? I’m willing to bet “the public” is ambivalent at most, and most of those who actively mistrust chlorine washing are under the misapprehension that it’s unsafe.

Did you realise that the EU accepts that the process is safe Mr K?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8292496.html

The British public are overwhelmingly willing to ditch plans for a post-Brexit trade deal with the United States in order to protect the UK’s high food safety standards, new polling seen by The Independent shows.

The finding amounts to a public vote of no confidence in Theresa May’s Brexit trade strategy, which aims to paper-over a potential hit to EU commerce by having “global Britain” sign deals with other countries around the world – the richest of which is the US.

American trade negotiators are expected to demand Britain opens its markets to US foodstuffs that are currently illegal under EU rules as the price of a free trade agreement. Practices banned in the EU but currently widespread in the US including chlorine-washed chickens, hormone-treated beef, meat from animals fed on chicken faeces and crops washed with controversial herbicide chemicals.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Chris

Im curious whether you have a credible source for this claim or if it’s just the usual remainer wishful thinking? I’m willing to bet “the public” is ambivalent at most, and most of those who actively mistrust chlorine washing are under the misapprehension that it’s unsafe.

Did you realise that the EU accepts that the process is safe Mr K?



It would only decimate our farming sector if we continued to ban our own farmers from using safe, efficient means of ensuring chicken is germ-free. Freedom from blatant protectionism is one of the principal reasons why leaving the EU -and being outside the single market- is such a good idea. If our farmers want to sell to the EU then naturally they will have to observe the regulations of that market, but anything they sell within the UK must only match the rules set for the UK, by our parliament. There’s no reason why safe, germ- fee chlorine washed chicken can’t be legally produced here after Brexit. It will be entirely our own decision.

What it comes down to is profits are better with chlorine washing vs EU welfare standards.

Birds in the US are kept tightly packed, increasing the risk of cross infection. EU birds have more space, so less chance of cross contamination.

Also employees standards are better in the EU vs the US.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

What it comes down to is profits are better with chlorine washing vs EU welfare standards.

Birds in the US are kept tightly packed, increasing the risk of cross infection. EU birds have more space, so less chance of cross contamination.

Also employees standards are better in the EU vs the US.

As posted earlier, there is less chance of human infection with chlorinated chicken than the chicken we currently get from the EU. So that is nothing to do with profits.

I am surprised that you promote EU welfare standards when you must be aware that they are pretty deplorable when compared to UK standards.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

As posted earlier, there is less chance of human infection with chlorinated chicken than the chicken we currently get from the EU. So that is nothing to do with profits.

I am surprised that you promote EU welfare standards when you must be aware that they are pretty deplorable when compared to UK standards.

The EU might well say the same about us - Foot and Mouth Disease, Mad Cow Disease, we've not got a great record.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Angua

What it comes down to is profits are better with chlorine washing vs EU welfare standards.

Birds in the US are kept tightly packed, increasing the risk of cross infection. EU birds have more space, so less chance of cross contamination.

Also employees standards are better in the EU vs the US.

We preach a lot to others but conveniently forget to preach to ourselves when it comes to food standards.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/f...-a3646416.html

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-11-17/p...not-a-one-off/

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...tic-resistance

---------- Post added at 13:25 ---------- Previous post was at 13:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

The EU might well say the same about us - Foot and Mouth Disease, Mad Cow Disease, we've not got a great record.

Yes l remember a most honourable cabinet minister trying to force feed his child with a beef burger if l rightly remember.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

The EU might well say the same about us - Foot and Mouth Disease, Mad Cow Disease, we've not got a great record.

Quite.

[Bircho]

Originally Posted by Mr K

The EU might well say the same about us - Mad Cow Disease, we've not got a great record.

Careful. Someone on here will think you are talking about TM.

[jonbxx]

According to the World Animal Protection Index ( https://api.worldanimalprotection.org/ ) the only countries in Europe with worse animal protection indices in Europe than the US are Belarus, Turkey and The Ukraine, none of which are in the EU. There are only four 'class A' countries - UK, New Zealand, Austria and Switzerland with Austria being the highest.

I notice that the motion to transfer Article 13 of the Lisbon Treaty which covers animal sentience in to the Brexit Bill was voted down. Hopefully, there will be a separate bill or we will be slipping down that index.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Angua

What it comes down to is profits are better with chlorine washing vs EU welfare standards.

Birds in the US are kept tightly packed, increasing the risk of cross infection. EU birds have more space, so less chance of cross contamination.

Also employees standards are better in the EU vs the US.

So why assume even worse US animal welfare standards would be acceptable?

The reason the EU have banned chlorine washing is to improve welfare standards, as chlorine washing hides a multitude of sins, including removing the surface slime that appears, giving a false impression that the meat is fresher than it is.

The worst aspect is there is no need to advise customers that the chicken is chlorine washed, as it is a process rather than an ingredient.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

So why assume even worse US animal welfare standards would be acceptable?

The reason the EU have banned chlorine washing is to improve welfare standards, as chlorine washing hides a multitude of sins, including removing the surface slime that appears, giving a false impression that the meat is fresher than it is.

The worst aspect is there is no need to advise customers that the chicken is chlorine washed, as it is a process rather than an ingredient.

I dare say the country of origin would be a dead giveaway. Frankly, I can't see this as being a major turnoff for British consumers, particularly if it's cheaper.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

According to the World Animal Protection Index ( https://api.worldanimalprotection.org/ ) the only countries in Europe with worse animal protection indices in Europe than the US are Belarus, Turkey and The Ukraine, none of which are in the EU. There are only four 'class A' countries - UK, New Zealand, Austria and Switzerland with Austria being the highest.

I notice that the motion to transfer Article 13 of the Lisbon Treaty which covers animal sentience in to the Brexit Bill was voted down. Hopefully, there will be a separate bill or we will be slipping down that index.

A topical article on US animal husbandry:

Farming: 'We've bred them to their limit': death rates surge for female pigs in the US

---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:34 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Im curious whether you have a credible source for this claim or if it’s just the usual remainer wishful thinking? I’m willing to bet “the public” is ambivalent at most, and most of those who actively mistrust chlorine washing are under the misapprehension that it’s unsafe

Even the Daily Mail turns it's nose up at this practise:

Too fat to stand and their flesh rots while they're alive: The REAL reason America's 'Frankenchickens' have to be washed with chlorine as US industrial farming practices are exposed ahead of possible post-Brexit trade deal

Originally Posted by Chris

Did you realise that the EU accepts that the process is safe Mr K?

But the EU still chooses to ban this process:

https://fullfact.org/europe/does-eu-...nsed-chlorine/

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

From that, We can all see that you are content with the skewing and hegemonist gets that I have described. 52% of the UK disagrees with you.

Let's correct some facts (again): "52% of the UK" is actually "37% of the electorate", namely 17.4 million out of 64.6 million UK residents.

Don't forget that Vote Brexit has a real chance of becoming Vote Corbyn. Not certain yet but getting more and more likely as this shambles goes on. Wouldn't that be ironic?

[OLD BOY]

I don't see a problem with chlorinated chicken, but most British people would have problems with the conditions in which these American chickens are reared. These are two different things.

Having said this, the Mail is known for over-hyping its stories, and I would question whether all US farms were like this. Some British farmers are not that good either, particularly those managing battery farms.

I would have thought that any trade deal with the US would specify standards expected of any imports into this country. This would include inspections by UK vets.

[richard s]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don't see a problem with chlorinated chicken, but most British people would have problems with the conditions in which these American chickens are reared. These are two different things.

Having said this, the Mail is known for over-hyping its stories, and I would question whether all US farms were like this. Some British farmers are not that good either, particularly those managing battery farms.

I would have thought that any trade deal with the US would specify standards expected of any imports into this country. This would include inspections by UK vets.

I thought battery farms were banned. As for anything chlorinated... do not eat or buy it!

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I dare say the country of origin would be a dead giveaway. Frankly, I can't see this as being a major turnoff for British consumers, particularly if it's cheaper.

We can of course simply repeal the EU regulations for meat labelling which cover the country of origin and slaughter and Bob’s your uncle, no one is any the wiser.

Here’s the uk guidance on labelling by the way - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/food-lab...ntry-of-origin

[1andrew1]

British Government acknowledges that a no-deal situation would require it to implement a hard border in Ireland.

He [Philip Hammond] said: “The challenges around the Irish border are around the legal requirements we will have if we are not in a trade block within the European Union to operate the WTO compliant border, which does require checks at the border. That’s what the WTO rules require.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8563981.html