NTL Broadband ZERO CAP Theory! - Page 3

coolape · 20-12-2004, 10:01

i have 1 slackware box ( one freebsd box and one windows xp box dual boot with slackware and gentoo. and thats not including the other 3 computers that belongs to my family.

and about the pictures, photography is my hobby, and to scan slide films using a dedicated film scanner can take up 4mb... and thats like half the quality, the max i have had is 11.2 mb for a picture, .. and the linux, unix box's are for playing on, i like to explore new things.

andrew_wallasey · 20-12-2004, 10:48

What a complete an utter load of tosh!

20-12-2004, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnHorb

As I read it, the 'new ip' was to avoid DDOS attacks

Get a router?

Ignition · 20-12-2004, 16:12

Ummm pay a few quid for a BNC? http://www.gotbnc.com/

I'm absolutely astonished that you are displaying your real IP in a 'hackers' chat room, especially as you are apparently an op in there, would have thought a BNC would be a prerequisite.

coolape · 21-12-2004, 13:50

Why are you afraid of showing ur real IP in a hackers chat room?, Im certainly not, whats the worst they can do to me? they definately cant access my computer as I AM BEHIND A ROUTER, and my main computer is behind my freebsd box, and its basically a firewall, and my slackware box is behind the freebsd box aswell, and the rest are some where else in the house,.. and btw IF you were DDoS'd a firewall / router will not save your little backside, heck if you attacked by thousands of computers every second, u can have the fastest line in the world and you will still get disconnected...

**Mick** · 21-12-2004, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolape

Why are you afraid of showing ur real IP in a hackers chat room?, Im certainly not

That's a strange thing to say IMO when you stated previously in this thread:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolape

From then on If i get attacked i just change my mac, turn off the modem, get a new ip. and ofcourse i get attacked again and again and i just change and change my ip.

Hiding your IP address as Ignition suggests above will stop you having to go round the houses just to get a new IP address.

coolape · 21-12-2004, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

That's a strange thing to say IMO when you stated previously in this thread:-

Hiding your IP address as Ignition suggests above will stop you having to go round the houses just to get a new IP address.

Yes it would save me the time in running arround the house, but i'd rather save my money and do a little excercise..

Anyways i think this thread has gone off topic, it's supposed to be a theory! and i guess alot of people out there cant accept the thought of having an exploit for something that hasnt even been released yet.

Stuart · 21-12-2004, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolape

Why are you afraid of showing ur real IP in a hackers chat room?, Im certainly not, whats the worst they can do to me? they definately cant access my computer as I AM BEHIND A ROUTER, and my main computer is behind my freebsd box, and its basically a firewall, and my slackware box is behind the freebsd box aswell, and the rest are some where else in the house,.. and btw IF you were DDoS'd a firewall / router will not save your little backside, heck if you attacked by thousands of computers every second, u can have the fastest line in the world and you will still get disconnected...

You have made one major mistake in dealing with hackers in this way. You assume you are secure. Don't. There are security flaws in FreeBSD (the same as any OS). I'll admit that I don't know what they are or how to exploit them, but they *are* there none the less. TBH, by broadcasting your real IP, you are asking to be hacked. In my experience, the people who claim they are safe from hacking are usually the ones who have (or have had) their networks hacked.

Don't assume you are safe behind a router either. There is a way (AT&T discovered it- will try and dig out the link) to discover how many computers are behind a router (even using NAT), and exactly what ports each is using.

So, it IS theoretically possible to access any computer, even behind a firewall and router.

True, a firewall/router won't stop a DDOS (although if the DDOS involves Pinging, a good firewall can reduce the effect). Broadcasting your IP does enable a hacker to DDOS your machine though. At least going through a BNC would slow them down.

As a side note, if you are happy to encourage people to DDOS you, I would hate to be on your UBR channel...

Ignition · 21-12-2004, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolape

Why are you afraid of showing ur real IP in a hackers chat room?, Im certainly not, whats the worst they can do to me? they definately cant access my computer as I AM BEHIND A ROUTER, and my main computer is behind my freebsd box, and its basically a firewall, and my slackware box is behind the freebsd box aswell, and the rest are some where else in the house,.. and btw IF you were DDoS'd a firewall / router will not save your little backside, heck if you attacked by thousands of computers every second, u can have the fastest line in the world and you will still get disconnected...

Thanks for the valuable information, most educational, I do have a vague grasp of these things but that's interesting.

Incidentally although you obviously know all this already NAT can be traversed by various means, UDP and TCP sequence breaking being two of them, and it's nice to see that you are perfectly happy saving your 'little backside' while ntl owned kit takes a pounding on your behalf because you can't be bothered with a vhost or BNC and think it's leet to be DDoSd. *sigh*

FWIW I'm not afraid to show my real IP in a hacker / cracker room, mostly because such things are usually private and I wouldn't be in one anyway. If I wanted to go in one you're quite right I'd hide my real IP, some of us have static ones and even if I didn't I have better things to do than have a collection of packet kiddies nailing me.

Real hackers don't do packeting, packet kiddies do to be honest.

Stuartbe · 21-12-2004, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by scastle

You have made one major mistake in dealing with hackers in this way. You assume you are secure. Don't. There are security flaws in FreeBSD (the same as any OS). I'll admit that I don't know what they are or how to exploit them, but they *are* there none the less. TBH, by broadcasting your real IP, you are asking to be hacked. In my experience, the people who claim they are safe from hacking are usually the ones who have (or have had) their networks hacked.

Don't assume you are safe behind a router either. There is a way (AT&T discovered it- will try and dig out the link) to discover how many computers are behind a router (even using NAT), and exactly what ports each is using.

So, it IS theoretically possible to access any computer, even behind a firewall and router.

True, a firewall/router won't stop a DDOS (although if the DDOS involves Pinging, a good firewall can reduce the effect). Broadcasting your IP does enable a hacker to DDOS your machine though. At least going through a BNC would slow them down.

As a side note, if you are happy to encourage people to DDOS you, I would hate to be on your UBR channel...

Scastle is 100% correct...

There is no such thing as a 100% secure server/computer/network.

The only reasonably secure computer is one that is locked in a cabinet and has no network connections. Having an arogant attitude of " I am hack proof " will only result in tears. I also wonder what kind of "hacker" channel you freqent, Its sounds more like a " Cracker / Script kidie " channel. Real hackers dont use bots or brute force methods, They use inteligence and are usualy very skilled programers. Real hackers dont wont to cause disruption or problems, They wont to help secure the internet as a whole.

Showing your IP to these channels is just asking for trouble. There are plenty of ways to mask your real IP. I use arround 2gb a day dandwidth both up and down so I have a busisness connection with a static ip, and I have never had any problems ! With that kind of usage I would never consider a domestic service.

I just feel for the poor sucker that gets your IP after you have finished with it !!!!!

coolape · 21-12-2004, 15:48

im sorry for the misunderstanding i wasnt saying i was secure, i just wanted to let out that if they wanted to hack me and delete all my files, i wouldnt care less i need a reformat anyway, yes a bnc or vhost would save alot of hassle, but im not under attack 24/7, but it does happen. and they do get fed up and eventually stop.

yes i do agree hackers dont packet, and yes you did use the correct term packet kiddie! :P... i was only trying to say that you can have the best hardware, the best connection, the best of everything, but if you getting DDoS'ed nothing is going to stop your connection from being dropped

.. i hope you guys can understand what im trying to say here :P.. anyways hows the christmas party going at NTL? anything fun being planned at the offices?

Ignition · 21-12-2004, 15:52

Yup we're going to DoS random users with their own uBR and track them by MAC address so changing IP is no escape

Would you care to provide your IP address please

Stuart · 21-12-2004, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolape

im sorry for the misunderstanding i wasnt saying i was secure, i just wanted to let out that if they wanted to hack me and delete all my files, i wouldnt care less i need a reformat anyway,

So, when you said

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolape

from post 35
Why are you afraid of showing ur real IP in a hackers chat room?, Im certainly not, whats the worst they can do to me? they definately cant access my computer as I AM BEHIND A ROUTER, and my main computer is behind my freebsd box, and its basically a firewall, and my slackware box is behind the freebsd box aswell, and the rest are some where else in the house,..

You weren't saying you were secure, because I took "they definately cant access my computer as I AM BEHIND A ROUTER, and my main computer is a freebsd box, and it's basically a firewall" to mean you consider yourself secure? I am confused.

I agree that a firewall (or any equipment) will not stop a DDOS. One sure defence against DDOS's is to not broadcast your IP in the first place.

OK, so having your connection bombarded in this way may not affect you, but it may well affect anyone attached to the same card as you in your local UBR. You may well be slowing their connections. Let me ask, is that fair? Should they suffer slower connections because of something you do?

Mauldor · 21-12-2004, 18:58

Can I add a couple points? I am right in thinking that a DDOS stands for :

Distrubited Denial of Service

How this works I thought (silly me) is that XXX number of Computers get taken over, by which i mean the master operator can use a whole bank of connected computers on anything from 56k to 100mbit etc to attack at once a certain target - like for example Microsoft, Apple or whatever web site you feel like today. The theory is that so many computers are asking for pings back that its both hard to stop ( as too many to add to reject list) and also the person who is attacking you does not even know that they are..

Now onto the attacking part ---you have to have something to attack, be it a web server, ftp server or whatever. Your router will drop packets for ports that are not forwarded through correct? Another question, why would these elite hackers be spending time attacking a Home computer with nothing worth having when there is much better and harder targets out there?

TheBlueRaja · 21-12-2004, 19:09

Forget NTL - move to ADSL - what cap?

Simple...