Coronavirus

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The point is your history of underestimating the impact of COVID - you said

There isn't enough information to fully assess the impact of Long COVID, but you appear to be (just like you did with COVID) defaulting to "it's not that bad"...

Hope this helps

It does help Hugh, for once you have lucidly put across your point, why you didn’t do that in the first place. Who knows.

You’re right, I think “Long Covid” is real, is an issue, but for a very unfortunate few. Hopefully in the coming months we’ll understand more about it.

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

it is pretty obvious he will not concede he just wants the back and forth.

Unfortunately Covid has been under estimated by far to many and imo the deniers are the ones who have forced the death rate so high and kept the lockdown running so long. I have no time and less respect for them

Firstly, I am not, and have never been, a denier.

Secondly, Hugh is old and wise but he likes to play games. Sometimes you need to be reminded that the best way to make a point, is to just make the point.

Thirdly, in regards to you it’s mainly just forth to you, the back isn’t really that interesting.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It does help Hugh, for once you have lucidly put across your point, why you didn’t do that in the first place. Who knows.

You’re right, I think “Long Covid” is real, is an issue, but for a very unfortunate few. Hopefully in the coming months we’ll understand more about it.

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------



Firstly, I am not, and have never been, a denier.

Secondly, Hugh is old and wise but he likes to play games. Sometimes you need to be reminded that the best way to make a point, is to just make the point.

Thirdly, in regards to you it’s mainly just forth to you, the back isn’t really that interesting.

I was not talking to you

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

it is pretty obvious he will not concede he just wants the back and forth.

Unfortunately Covid has been under estimated by far to many and imo the deniers are the ones who have forced the death rate so high and kept the lockdown running so long. I have no time and less respect for them

It's a bit late in the day to be bringing this lot up. Been there, done that, discussed it. Now it's (a) vaccine time and (b) watch the EU squirm time.

Btw, Pierre is no denier. He keeps much of this conversation down to earth.

[jfman]

Pierre isn’t a denier in that he recognises Covid exists, he just doesn’t think it’s as serious as almost every country in the world is treating it.

He did give me my personal highlight of this thread when he was adamant that the schools wouldn’t close to most pupils in January as he assumed a degree of consistency and competency in Government.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by jfman

Pierre isn’t a denier in that he recognises Covid exists, he just doesn’t think it’s as serious as almost every country in the world is treating it.

so he is denying the reality of the situation then

---------- Post added at 19:19 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It's a bit late in the day to be bringing this lot up. Been there, done that, discussed it. Now it's (a) vaccine time and (b) watch the EU squirm time.

Btw, Pierre is no denier. He keeps much of this conversation down to earth.

well I did say I had nothing to add but that was not good enough for him

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

For point A) you’re assuming there’s AstraZeneca product unused, discarded or not being produced as a result of these decisions. I highly doubt this is the case - manufacturing of all vaccines will be at maximum capacity for some time. We are already talking about an Autumn booster - that’ll presumably be higher priority than customers further down the AZ order books.

I think it’s a matter of record that thousands of doses of the AZ vaccine, are going unused in Germany/ France and elsewhere.

As vaccine use will be an ongoing process, it makes sense for other developers to try and stall a successful rollout of a dominant product so they get their product out there and try and get a foothold going forward, and be able to say that they don’t have issues and chequered history the AZ product had.

For point B) discredit it to who?

the consumer. If your population refuse to use the AZ vaccine due to discrediting mis-information, well here is a “safe” vaccine backed by the French/German* governments ( *delete as a applicable), manufactured in France/Germany etc.....use this instead.

For point C) what you’ve not grasped, and nor did tin foil hat man, is that ending lockdowns and restrictions is worth tens of billions to global economies. The relative buttons spent in vaccine development in the US, EU and UK on products that might never see the light of day is neither here nor there by comparison. No taxpayer is likely to feel that strongly about unsuccessful developments or a short term price premium being paid. Relative to our test and trace system that didn’t work, or dodgy lateral flow tests that are no more reliable than a coin toss, it’s small beer.

You have a point here. That said even with vaccines , presently, the appetite for coming out of lockdown across europe is still low.

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

I was not talking to you

I was talking to you.

---------- Post added at 20:37 ---------- Previous post was at 20:32 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Pierre isn’t a denier in that he recognises Covid exists, he just doesn’t think it’s as serious as almost every country in the world is treating it.

He did give me my personal highlight of this thread when he was adamant that the schools wouldn’t close to most pupils in January as he assumed a degree of consistency and competency in Government.

True, on all points.

---------- Post added at 20:39 ---------- Previous post was at 20:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

so he is denying the reality of the situation then

Nope.

well I did say I had nothing to add but that was not good enough for him

To have something to add, presupposes that you had something to start with.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I think it’s a matter of record that thousands of doses of the AZ vaccine, are going unused in Germany/ France and elsewhere.

There’s unused vaccine everywhere, simply because it doesn’t go from plant to arm in a seamless process. They’ve bought and paid for them. For the “strategy” to work it has to be manufactured by but not purchased in favour of other vaccines despite widespread availability.

As vaccine use will be an ongoing process, it makes sense for other developers to try and stall a successful rollout of a dominant product so they get their product out there and try and get a foothold going forward, and be able to say that they don’t have issues and chequered history the AZ product had.

Other developers perhaps, but the accusation was levelled at politicians.

the consumer. If your population refuse to use the AZ vaccine due to discrediting mis-information, well here is a “safe” vaccine backed by the French/German* governments ( *delete as a applicable), manufactured in France/Germany etc.....use this instead.

So we are back at rational capitalists wanting to delay and spend more on vaccines in the long run.

You have a point here. That said even with vaccines , presently, the appetite for coming out of lockdown across europe is still low.

Again this isn’t a rational position for capitalists to hold, regardless of which vaccines are or aren’t available at present.

[Sephiroth]

Careful Pierre - OB's not posting very often and jfman needs someone with whom to argue!

[jfman]

Now there’s a proper Covid denier.

FFS, move on from stupid arguments with each other.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Careful Pierre - OB's not posting very often and jfman needs someone with whom to argue!

JFman, along with many others is part of the rich tapestry of CF, and we’d be poorer without him. No matter how much he melts your head.

However

Originally Posted by jfman

There’s unused vaccine everywhere, simply because it doesn’t go from plant to arm in a seamless process. They’ve bought and paid for them. For the “strategy” to work it has to be manufactured by but not purchased in favour of other vaccines despite widespread availability.

But you appear to be ignoring the very much reported issue of people demonstrably rejecting the AZ vaccine due to the info-war against it. Nothing to do with supply chain or logistics, people outrightly refusing to take it for fear of Blood clots, or it just not working.

Other developers perhaps, but the accusation was levelled at politicians.

politicians working for or responding to, lobbyists from other vaccine developers not yet in the game.

So we are back at rational capitalists wanting to delay and spend more on vaccines in the long run.

no...politicians, wanting to alter the,aging field so that vaccine developers they represent get a slice of the pie.

[jfman]

I’m not sure people are refusing it in significant enough numbers to make money for other vaccine developers.

Your accusation seems to be that politicians in the US and Europe are corrupt, but only in the hands of pharmaceutical companies they represent. I’d contest that such widespread corruption in favour of corporate interests is just as likely (if not moreso) to come from the tens of (hundreds of) billions of pounds/dollars/euro at risk outside the the pharmaceutical sector. Boeing and Airbus can’t be too happy with all these planes not running up mileage.

[jfman]

Channel 4 News reporting that restrictions could be made on the AZ vaccine in the UK on under 30s but the MHRA saying “no decision has been made”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-for-under-30s

The Guardian even dug up Professor Pantsdown for a quote. I’m sure the story over the weekend about giving people in their 20s the J&J vaccine “to allow them to get one shot and jet off on holiday” is conveniently timed and 100% unlinked.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by jfman

Channel 4 News reporting that restrictions could be made on the AZ vaccine in the UK on under 30s but the MHRA saying “no decision has been made”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-for-under-30s

The Guardian even dug up Professor Pantsdown for a quote.

Looks like some other vaccine manufacturer could get a slice of the pie £

[jfman]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Looks like some other vaccine manufacturer could get a slice of the pie £

Indeed, with good honest UK politicians and regulators making the decision we can be 100% confident that there’s no corruption in their processes. No drinking buddies, party donors etc. The sort of thing you’d expect from Europe.