Coronavirus (OLD)

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Older people and those with underlying medical conditions are more susceptable to it, but that doesn't mean the virus isn't potentially deadly to everyone else. It's still killing more healthy people than anything like the flu.



Errr...we do know it's increasing and it's nothing to do with doing extra tests. The goverment posts all the data for you to look at, we're actually testing less this week compared to last week (~180,000 tests processed vs ~200,000), yet we have had a big spike in the same time frame. How do you explain that?

And if it's not a big spike, why is the government suddenly scrambling to increase restrictions again?



Sweden tried that and it didn't work. Let's not repeat history.

(Not directed at OLD BOY specifically) I have seen literally every single one of these arguments in this thread:



People need to learn to listen to the experts instead of getting their armchair medical degrees out.

Ok doc.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Do you mean autoimmune?

Out of curiosity, have you had adverse reactions to other vaccines at all? I am wondering if you have had reactions to either the flu antigen or another component of the vaccine. If it's the flu antigen, then you would be golden as there is next to no similarity between coronavirus and influenza virus so you wouldn't expect to see a crossover reaction.

Of the other flu vaccine components, the biggest risk is egg protein but that's only present in the injected vaccine, not the live nasal one (Flumist and similar) None of the COVID vaccines I can see are grown in eggs.

Yes - auto-immune, thanks.

No adverse reactions to other vaccines (I've had several for travel).

It's just the auto-immune reaction to Covid vaccine that bothers me, which, from my layman perspective, won't differentiate between flu and Covid vaccines for the purpose of reaction.

[Kushan]

Originally Posted by Carth

We've been listening to experts for years . . . some examples:

Go to work on an egg . . . ooops sorry, eggs are bad for you
Saddam has lots of nasty WMD's
Diesel engines are best for the environment.
Our vehicle emissions are the lowest . . ever
Cows are causing global warming
Thalidomide is perfectly safe

We do research that gives us clearer and better understandings of things, which occasionally changes the advice we give. That's how science works.

We also used to think the sun revolved around the earth, or that if you sailed too far you'd fall off it. We changed our views on that, too.

Science isn't a one-and-done thing, it's a constantly evolving field with new research being done all the time. It's okay if you get overwhelmed by that and can't keep up with the constantly changing landscape, all you have to do is listen to the expert in that field who's spent decades of their life researching and understanding it.

Anything else is the definition of wilful ignorance.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Kushan

We do research that gives us clearer and better understandings of things, which occasionally changes the advice we give. That's how science works.

We also used to think the sun revolved around the earth, or that if you sailed too far you'd fall off it. We changed our views on that, too.

Science isn't a one-and-done thing, it's a constantly evolving field with new research being done all the time. It's okay if you get overwhelmed by that and can't keep up with the constantly changing landscape, all you have to do is listen to the expert in that field who's spent decades of their life researching and understanding it.

Anything else is the definition of wilful ignorance.

Thanks for confirming the UK Government aren't actually doing u-turns, simply following the advice of experts

[Kushan]

The UK government, especially a Tory government, follows the advice of experts only when it's convenient for them to do so.

They didn't follow the advice quickly enough in the beginning and thousands died as a result. They should be held accountable for that.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Kushan

The UK government, especially a Tory government, follows the advice of experts only when it's convenient for them to do so.

They didn't follow the advice quickly enough in the beginning and thousands died as a result. They should be held accountable for that.

A government that wants all the powers of government but none of the responsibilities and blame when things go wrong which they have done on numerous occasions.

Why are we waiting till Monday for the new limits (6 people) to take force - doesn’t that just mean lots of people will get together over the weekend for the last time before it’s illegal?

[Carth]

Make your mind up on how you want the Government to act. Either:

A) they should be held accountable for not acting quickly enough

B) they're 'suddenly scrambling to increase restrictions again'

. . . or are some people acting controversially no matter what the 'Tory' Government do?

[Kushan]

Originally Posted by Carth

Make your mind up on how you want the Government to act. Either:

A) they should be held accountable for not acting quickly enough

B) they're 'suddenly scrambling to increase restrictions again'

. . . or are some people acting controversially no matter what the 'Tory' Government do?

I don't think anyone here has made both arguments. Different people making different arguments, but I haven't seen an individual say both.

However, I will say that had the Government acted sooner, they wouldn't have to scramble later.

[jfman]

Whitty and Vallance are up with BoJo at 4pm. Should be good value. Last time out BoJo expected Whitty to give him a couple of minutes to prepare for the hacks questions and he didn’t bother.

I wonder if Whitty expands on being at or near the limit, or Vallance on working from home being a perfectly reasonable adjustment. I’d be particularly keen on hearing from the latter, as the Chief Scientific Adviser to the Civil Service, and his views on BoJo trying to set completely arbitrary targets for return to the workplace. Is there a science behind it that isn’t economics?

Originally Posted by Hugh

Why are we waiting till Monday for the new limits (6 people) to take force - doesn’t that just mean lots of people will get together over the weekend for the last time before it’s illegal?

I’d assume that fair notice is required before behaviour becomes criminal.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Why are we waiting till Monday for the new limits (6 people) to take force - doesn’t that just mean lots of people will get together over the weekend for the last time before it’s illegal?

Because i have plans that involve a lot of people.

[jfman]

Probably hoping to keep the crowds at the St Ledger. Hancock and Dido Harding both with a keen interest in horse racing donations.

Thankfully the local authority appears to have stepped in. Of course the delay in laying regulations doesn’t mean the Government can’t update its guidance - it’s be unenforceable in law for a period but that doesn’t make it bad advice from a public health perspective.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Yes - auto-immune, thanks.

No adverse reactions to other vaccines (I've had several for travel).

It's just the auto-immune reaction to Covid vaccine that bothers me, which, from my layman perspective, won't differentiate between flu and Covid vaccines for the purpose of reaction.

Interesting, thank you! Has your GP filled out a 'Yellow Card' for adverse reactions in the past - definitely worth doing as it makes drugs better.

Coronaviruses and influenza viruses are very different beasts. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that flu vaccines affect COVID infections which suggests that the immune system sees these two types as very different things.

But hey, we digress...

I have a more sympathy for the Government on judging the right balance between restrictions on people's liberties and fighting the spread of the virus and with the timing of those changes. It's a tricky balance to get right and you don't have precise evidence on the impact of any particular change. Their epidemiologists likely give them a good estimate but they then need to judge that against the economy and people's every day lives.

As I said before we're seeing the biggest restrictions on citizens' freedoms since the war. The Government are right to use that power with caution.