Brexit (Old)

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don’t know if ‘terrified’ is the right description, but concerns are simply related to the fact that the government’s plans in case of a ‘no deal’ have not been announced yet.

There are so many people, it seems, that appear to have forgotten that we did have a (very successful) history before the EU![COLOR="Silver"]

Maybe ‘extremely concerned’ is a better description when the answer is we don’t know to the following questions;

Will drugs produced to EMA standards be acceptable in the UK?
Will drugs produced to UK standards be acceptable in EMA governed countries
Will the UK contribute to international drug bodies such as the International Committee for Harmonisation
How will raw materials quality be governed?
How will raw material manufacturers in the UK be inspected before shipment to other countries?

These questions and others need an answer and soon so plans can be made.

Of course this and other industries existed before we joined the EU but the industry has changed beyond all recognition. The best selling drug in the 70s was Valium. It’s now Etanercept, an incredibly complicated product to manufacture.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So defeatist! I’m glad you aren’t in charge of our negotiations!

If you read the context my post it is not defeatist. I am not the one advocating taking the ball and going home because people are 'mean to us'. This is the relationship people voted for, a adversarial one where both sides will seek to leverage their power to get the best deal they can. The EU have the article 50 deadline and the size of their economy on their side.

If people don't have the stomach for this when what will happen when it comes to the US who will certainly attempt to leverage the size of their economy to exact the most concessions from us possible? Do we just pack up and go home then too?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

If you read the context my post it is not defeatist. I am not the one advocating taking the ball and going home because people are 'mean to us'. This is the relationship people voted for, a adversarial one where both sides will seek to leverage their power to get the best deal they can. The EU have the article 50 deadline and the size of their economy on their side.

If people don't have the stomach for this when what will happen when it comes to the US who will certainly attempt to leverage the size of their economy to exact the most concessions from us possible? Do we just pack up and go home then too?

I think you're right, Damien, there does seem be almost a defeatist victim mentality "Go home if they're mean to us' playing out here as you neatly put it. The reality is that size matters and the US, Japan, EU and others are far bigger economies so hold a better negotiating hand. Our strength should be our agility but the current government is not very fleet of foot.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

If you read the context my post it is not defeatist. I am not the one advocating taking the ball and going home because people are 'mean to us'. This is the relationship people voted for, a adversarial one where both sides will seek to leverage their power to get the best deal they can. The EU have the article 50 deadline and the size of their economy on their side.

If people don't have the stomach for this when what will happen when it comes to the US who will certainly attempt to leverage the size of their economy to exact the most concessions from us possible? Do we just pack up and go home then too?

Oh, please! Do you really expect the UK to except whatever deal is thrown at us? If that is not defeatist, what is?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Oh, please! Do you really expect the UK to except whatever deal is thrown at us? If that is not defeatist, what is?

I don’t engage in this thread enough to correct every inability to comprehend. Staying at the table doesn’t mean accepting whatever deal they offer, you have to fight for your side as well.

[Sephiroth]

Hence the likely upcoming fudge.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

There are so many people, it seems, that appear to have forgotten that we did have a (very successful) history before the EU

It is a very dangerous if not a naive strategy to apply the experience gained 40+ years ago to our current situation. Repeating "it will be fine" reassures no one except the faithful.

If you think the obstacles looming out of the mist are illusory then prove it. Explain why we will not have delays at the border. explain why we will not suffer financially, etc.

Repeating "we will be fine, have faith" with no proof or worked examples is just hot air. Remember, large numbers of Leaves voters were promised they would be better off and voted on the basis of this.

---------- Post added at 11:59 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

Here's interesting analysis of the recent question on impact of WTO rules on

Fact checking Sir Michael Rawlins statements in relation to Insulin and #Brexit. Should we be worried?

It aims to be objective on the issue, no tabloid headlines just an adult perspective.

Instead of having to check less than half our imports, including those coming from non-EU countries into the EU then into the UK, until there are appropriate agreements in place, and those will need to be intra and extra EU, we will need to check all imports into the UK for appropriate tariffs. It’s worth bearing in mind that the technology that is currently in use for Customs is also old and was supposed to be scrapped five years ago.

Suddenly our border infrastructure, that has been set-up to deal with the EU for forty years needs to handle twice as many imports with old technology. That’s where Sir Michael’s concern about transportation comes from. With a little over eight months, is it likely that we will have the appropriate infrastructure in place to handle the entire flow of goods?

The two points of view differ dramatically, with some saying, “Well it only takes 6 seconds for WTO goods to pass border checks” to others taking the point of view that the increased scope and complexity of border controls will cause significant delays. Many large industry participants are taking the latter viewpoint. I’m sure the truth lies somewhere in between.

This was interesting re: our WTO hard Brexit preparation:

The UK submitted its new schedule to the WTO on July 24th, however, the US, Australia and Canada all disapproved of the terms, so what the UK ends up with remains very unclear and subject to negotiation.

It seems our initial WTO position may need refining.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

There are so many people, it seems, that appear to have forgotten that we did have a (very successful) history before the EU

Ah, the 70's, those halcyon days of 3 day working weeks, rolling power blackouts, widespread industrial action, raging inflation, the oil crisis, the financial crisis, the Austin Allegro, the Morris Marina - let's go back to the good old days...

Or the 60s

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Maybe ‘extremely concerned’ is a better description when the answer is we don’t know to the following questions;

Will drugs produced to EMA standards be acceptable in the UK?
Will drugs produced to UK standards be acceptable in EMA governed countries
Will the UK contribute to international drug bodies such as the International Committee for Harmonisation
How will raw materials quality be governed?
How will raw material manufacturers in the UK be inspected before shipment to other countries?

These questions and others need an answer and soon so plans can be made.

Of course this and other industries existed before we joined the EU but the industry has changed beyond all recognition. The best selling drug in the 70s was Valium. It’s now Etanercept, an incredibly complicated product to manufacture.

Nothing stopping us from automatically approving EU regulated drugs or anything else. And we can produce things that meet EU regulations. After all, other non-EU countries must manage it, including China. The thing is we might want to produce or accept products with looser regulations or perhaps stricter regulations.


I can remember an issue from several years ago, where UK regulations for UHT milk were stricter than in France. We were forced to accept French UHT milk which didn't meet our own internal regulations which our producers had to meet. UHT milk may not be much of an issue, but it does demonstrate the issue.

Yeah we can accept whatever we want. There is nothing stopping us importing stuff other than our own laws. Going out is a different question.

With medication I suspect we'll conform to the EU regulations for a long while anyway because I can't see why we wouldn't.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Ah, the 70's, those halcyon days of 3 day working weeks, rolling power blackouts, widespread industrial action, raging inflation, the oil crisis, the financial crisis, the Austin Allegro, the Morris Marina - let's go back to the good old days...

Or the 60s

Joining the EU didn't solve those issues, Thatcher did.

[pip08456]

BREAKING: Number 10: No plans to call in the army if Britain leaves EU without a deal.

Just goes to show the stories like the one this weekend of the army being on standby, are from Remainers launching Project Fear 2.1 with fiction in combination with the Fake News Media.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

[pip08456]

That was due to a report in project fears biggest promoter, The Sunday Times.

[ianch99]

Looks like everyone is at the Project Fear Fake News game, even the Remain loving Daily Express

Army ready for BREXIT NO DEAL: Troops to deliver food and medicine – blueprints REVEAL

Must be untrue if the Express says it ...