Coronavirus

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

https://www.business-live.co.uk/ente...llion-18005904

https://f.hubspotusercontent30.net/h...-Biologics.pdf

That was back in March. In the end they didn't develop a vaccine.
They are now making the Oxford-AZ vaccine.Your second link is from spring 2015 and includes references to UK DTI funding.

Cobra Biologics has been producing pharaceuticals for more than 20 years. It has two facilities on Keele University’s Science and Innovation Park making the vaccine in a partnership with the global pharmaceutical giant.
The production agreement is part of a programme with the University of Oxford to ensure the not-for-profit worldwide supply of the vaccine during the pandemic.
Cobra, along with other consortium members, is providing large-scale manufacturing capacity for the vaccine.

So the production is not funded by the EU.
The list of sites on the EU-AZ agreement will be to avoid being required to ship it from places such as the Brazil plant. It is not a list of sites that the EU "owns".

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Chris

I think it's very unlikely that the contract in this case was worked up by sales reps working in isolation from the manufacturing arm of the business (though I have been mired in those sorts of situations often enough). Given the gravity of the situation, this has got to have gone to the very top, where there are board members with oversight of the relevant parts of the business and the ability to answer questions as to the feasibility of what's being demanded.

I have had good and bad experiences when contract negotiations go to the top to be honest. Our sales people get very worried when some members of the executive go into a customers site and start making promises no-one can keep

Time to warm up the SAS to defend our supplies

Originally Posted by Chris

If that’s the basis on which the EU is claiming to have funded AstraZeneca’s production infrastructure in the UK, that is an extremely tenuous pretext indeed.

No, it's a rebuttal of "it's been there 20 years", as if there were only UK funding for the company - the EU helped fund the research which made the production possible.

I don't think the EU has any claim on the O/AZ vaccines produced in the UK, but the denial of the facts that EU put some funding into the process is not accurate.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:19 ----------

Originally Posted by jonbxx

I have had good and bad experiences when contract negotiations go to the top to be honest. Our sales people get very worried when some members of the executive go into a customers site and start making promises no-one can keep

Been there, done that - worst case if Execs & Sales go in, and won't have a meeting before hand with Production to agree a script/limits/things not to promise (and apparently, screaming "WTAF are you doing - that's impossible" is frowned upon by Senior Management in client meetings ).

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

No, it's a rebuttal of "it's been there 20 years", as if there were only UK funding for the company - the EU helped fund the research which made the production possible.

I don't think the EU has any claim on the O/AZ vaccines produced in the UK, but the denial of the facts that EU put some funding into the process is not accurate.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:19 ----------

Been there, done that - worst case if Execs & Sales go in, and won't have a meeting before hand with Production to agree a script/limits/things not to promise (and apparently, screaming "WTAF are you doing - that's impossible" is frowned upon by Senior Management in client meetings ).

As I pointed out, not only was the article from spring 2015, it mentions various collaborations with UK universities and funding from UKs Department of Trade and Industry. The article talks about research into administering vaccines orally. How is that connected to anything?
The way EU funding worked for the UK was that 66% of any money that came back to the UK, was taken off the rebate. Therefore well over 66% of the EU money actually came from the UK. Eg if the EU spent 3m Euros in the UK, 2m of that would be knocked off the rebate and be extra money the UK had to pay.

Anything that the EU is supposed to have funded, is completely unrelated to Covid.


The EU will still have the Pfizer vaccine...

Croda, Snaith
The East Yorkshire headquartered smart science specialist is supplying an ingredient used in the Pfizer BioNtech Covid-19 vaccine.
The carrier is used to transport the vaccine's active element into the body.
It is produced at sites in the UK and US.

But not if they blockade the UK.

Originally Posted by Hugh

No, it's a rebuttal of "it's been there 20 years", as if there were only UK funding for the company - the EU helped fund the research which made the production possible.

I don't think the EU has any claim on the O/AZ vaccines produced in the UK, but the denial of the facts that EU put some funding into the process is not accurate.

Unless I’m completely misreading the various documents that have been posted this afternoon, the key factor is whether EU money paid to AstraZeneca as a direct consequence of the contract was used to build vaccine production facilities in the UK

If the EU wants to lay claim to the output of anything in the UK that has at some point benefited from an EU grant, that’s ridiculous, and obviously isn’t going to get them anywhere. EU development funds have been spent all over the place. And let’s not even get started on the whole business of us being net contributors to the whole party, so it was our flaming money before they appropriated it and then sent it back across the channel with an EU flag on it. But I digress ...

Breaking news

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55850352

Covid-19 vaccine Novavax - of which the British government has ordered 60 million doses - proves 89.3% effective in large-scale UK trials

Here’s hoping - I am taking part in this trial (50/50 chance of vaccine/placebo)

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Breaking news

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55850352



Here’s hoping - I am taking part in this trial (50/50 chance of vaccine/placebo)

One remarkable thing is the efficacy against the Kent variant, even 50% effective against the SA variant in HIV trial participants, which given their immune system issues is good news.

[1andrew1]

David Allen Green, a procurement lawyer, has looked at the contract with Curevac and drawn some conclusions, assuming that the contract with AstraZeneca is very similar.

But it would not be a slam-dunk for AstraZeneca if there is actually such a [best efforts] provision. The “best efforts” term goes to establishing capacities, not to whether those capacities are diverted to supplying another customer. A best reasonable efforts provision is not a general excuse and its application can be tightly defined — the commissioner would have a good point as well.

So, on the basis of a published contract with another supplier, it looks as if AstraZeneca would have the benefit of a best-efforts clause, but it also looks as if that provision offers only limited protection. And that is why both sides believe they are in the right, because they are saying slightly different things.

This episode shows why such public-supply contracts should not be confidential, because without sight of the contract, it is impossible to know who is right, about what. There is no good reason for secrecy; public supply contracts should always be in the public domain.
[Ursula von der Leyen has also said AstraZeneca's contract with the EU should be made public.]

https://www.ft.com/content/c4cde78a-...1-73be810249cf

More detail available on the author's personal blog: https://davidallengreen.com/2021/01/...ply-agreement/

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Breaking news

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55850352



Here’s hoping - I am taking part in this trial (50/50 chance of vaccine/placebo)

It looks like Fujifilm Diosynth up in Billingham, near Middlesbrough has the contract to make this one. Fuji is on an old ICI chemicals plant in an area best described as 'bleak'.

Having a Parmo makes visiting worthwhile though

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

David Allen Green, a procurement lawyer, has looked at the contract with Curevac and drawn some conclusions, assuming that the contract with AstraZeneca is very similar.


https://www.ft.com/content/c4cde78a-...1-73be810249cf

More detail available on the author's personal blog: https://davidallengreen.com/2021/01/...ply-agreement/

The Curevac contract also says that the EUs order is to be fulfilled before anybody else, including individual EU countries such as Germany, which has a separate order with them. If the UK one with AZ has a similar clause then AZ is forced to supply the UK first.
Link

Business Secretary Alok Sharma said: 'Our scientists are at the forefront of vaccine development. This deal with AstraZeneca means that if the Oxford University vaccine works, people in the UK will get the first access to it, helping to protect thousands of lives.

How long does the AZ vaccine last for in longer-term storage? Can it be stored for several months?

It has occurred to me that the early output of the EU-based plants has to go somewhere, and as the EU has yet to authorise it, it possibly has had to go somewhere such as the UK.

Under EU rules, can a product, of whatever type, that is not authorised for use in the EU, only be sent outside the EU? Eg Can an EU business, produce products destined for the US, that would not be allowed to be marketed and sold in the EU?

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Under EU rules, can a product, of whatever type, that is not authorised for use in the EU, only be sent outside the EU? Eg Can an EU business, produce products destined for the US, that would not be allowed to be marketed and sold in the EU?

Absolutely, happens all the time with things like electrical products.

Originally Posted by jonbxx

It looks like Fujifilm Diosynth up in Billingham, near Middlesbrough has the contract to make this one. Fuji is on an old ICI chemicals plant in an area best described as 'bleak'.

Having a Parmo makes visiting worthwhile though

My previous wife came from Stockton, so I often visited that area in the 70s and 80s when I was on leave - at the height of ICI production, as you drove up the A19 into Teeside, at night it was like a apocalyptic scene from Bladerunner, with all the lights, vapours, and flames blowing out of the chimney vents.

Now, as you say, more post-apocalyptic - a wasteland.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Absolutely, happens all the time with things like electrical products.

That would mean the Belgian AZ plant might have had little choice other than to send it to the UK, if that is what has been going on. If it can be stored longer term, why should AZ be expected to store it until the EU finally approves it?

[cimt]

Originally Posted by Hugh

My previous wife came from Stockton, so I often visited that area in the 70s and 80s when I was on leave - at the height of ICI production, as you drove up the A19 into Teeside, at night it was like a apocalyptic scene from Bladerunner, with all the lights, vapours, and flames blowing out of the chimney vents.

Now, as you say, more post-apocalyptic - a wasteland.

What do you think Bladerunner was based off? And it isn't that bad, it is charming in its own way.

It's good to see to see the plant being used for something like this.