Video On Demand - Why NTL have it right!

[Fedz]

Just thought I'd point out that I've just had to give advice to a Sky customer on how to remove what is in my opinion Sky's pathetic attempt at Video On Demand.

Obviously ntl has it bang on for the delivery of Video On Demand where you use your TV and remote and simply select On Demand and select your choice of programme and or film from the menu.

Sky (SkyByBroadband - SBB) you download an application to your PC and the graphical application you run gives you the choices (like on ntl TV) of programmes/movies, you then have to download the eg: +/- 600MB movie and or +/- 300MB programme (size depends on length of programme/movie choice) and wait and wait, for it to download so you can watch on your PC!

Now if your on a broadband providers bandwidth restricted tier - your going to get a very nasty shock when you see your bill for excess bandwidth and these download sizes will cost a good few pounds - all adds up very quickly.

Sky also add some services to your PC for their application to run eg: Kservice.exe and Khost.exe - these are delivery applications required for SBB.

These files will start-up everytime you start your PC even when you don't run/use SBB and these applications will open and use port 8080 and use bandwidth even when not in use (again using bandwidth).

If you un-install SBB these 2 files named above remain and remain active on your PC using, listening and connecting without you knowing.

It takes some knowledge and or skill to remove these SBB files from your system to restore to a state where they aren't used by your PC.

Now remembering ntl's Video On Demand is wholly used via your remote control, ntl digital set-top box and TV and there's no download required to your PC (unlike Sky) with all these potential hazards involved - a truly Video On Demand as it should be

[JadeFalcon]

shame interactive / guide / on demand are so slow its unusable

should fix that first heh

[Fedz]

Obviously I can understand your complaint regarding slow/sluggish/freezing of ntl's menu(s).

If you have/use a Pace DSTB - I've found having/using the Samsung DSTB eliminates 90% of the above.

Sky+ (which is just normal Sky and a hard drive/recorder - not VOD) is very highly prone to slowness/sluggish and freezing + more.

ntl - you can freephone for help and or engineers to help resolve the problem.
Sky - you dial 0870 (national rate number) and have to wait excessive and often over an hour in the queue to speak to CS for help ....etc.

[DocDutch]

have to say when I moved house I received a new remote (1 that is VOD ready) but kept my pacey, for some reason with the new remote I havent had 1 single problem with VOD, or the magical RED BUTTON on the beeb what used to happen with me was that my lovely pacey died as soon as I even thought about pressing the red button so now I'm a really happy customer with the tv

[Aragorn]

I have two problems with VoD -

1. The inconsistency of what gets put on VoD - it seems just about the only thing VoD regularly captures is Eastenders. Why not Life on Mars, Hotel Babylon, or the Top Gear Winter Olympics. Not much point having it if you can't guarantee they will be recording your fav programs. And of course there are no commercial channels - because of advertising rights I assume.

2. It suffers from the general unreliability of the STB - recently I have been unable to pause playback without crashing the Samsung STB!

Downloading programs by broadband may not be perfect, but it's what the BBC are doing as well - their IMP player not only downloads, but uses a P2P infrastructure, so you're uploading those programs as well!

Personally, I'll stick with my DVDR until the NTL PVR hits the streets.

Originally Posted by Fedz

Sky - you dial 0870 (national rate number) and have to wait excessive and often over an hour in the queue to speak to CS for help ....etc.

So true. I now have a working Sky system, However as soon as my 12 months contract is up i will be moving back to NTL, Sky's customer service is the pits.

And i was not aware before i signed up that they have customer service's in India, due to that its a automatic cancellation of service when the 12 months contract is up due to my stand on offshoreing.

Ntl only have tech support in India not customer service which is not perfect but i can handle as i never need to phone them.

[Fedz]

DSTB (NTL and Sky+) problems are universal. I understand the Pace has 1 processor and the Samsung has 2 processors hence why the Samsung can be more reliable over the Pace.

Having NTL TV and a DVDR is, in a sense PVR already but, obviously using 2 seperate equipments.

However Sky+ DSTB (normal sky with a built in digital video recorder (no VoD)) suffers greatly from all sorts of ailments - it's no more reliable than NTL's DSTB and Sky's doesn't even had VoD.

Imagine using the BBC IMP and SkyByBroadband (Sky's version of VoD) together on your PC. The bandwidth would be through the roof!

You can't turn off Sky's appliaction - even after you un-install it

More hassle than it's worth and a costly one at that

[SLM]

Originally Posted by Fedz

Sky - you dial 0870 (national rate number) and have to wait excessive and often over an hour in the queue to speak to CS for help ....etc.

I thought that was "illegal" I am sure a few months ago I heard that if they (any private company) using 0870 (national call charge) they had to answer straight away, as they make money (up to 12ppm) for you hanging on

Originally Posted by SLM

I thought that was "illegal" I am sure a few months ago I heard that if they (any private company) using 0870 (national call charge) they had to answer straight away, as they make money (up to 12ppm) for you hanging on

Well with all the dealings i have had with Sky customer support in the last month, I can tell you now that my call was never answered in under 25 mins. .

BTW they get away with that because you have been answered by the "push this button push that button" rubbish. They then procede to tell you how important your call is "Could it be because they are fleeching you while you wait".

[Derek]

I've had to call them 4 times in a year with problems with my Sky+.

The first time was during the daytime and I gave up after 30 minutes. Since then I've called in the morning just after 8:30 and been able to get through in 5 minutes or so.

But seeing this is normally a quiet time for call centres I'd hate to see the q's at peak times.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Fedz

Obviously I can understand your complaint regarding slow/sluggish/freezing of ntl's menu(s).

If you have/use a Pace DSTB - I've found having/using the Samsung DSTB eliminates 90% of the above.

Sky+ (which is just normal Sky and a hard drive/recorder - not VOD) is very highly prone to slowness/sluggish and freezing + more.

ntl - you can freephone for help and or engineers to help resolve the problem.
Sky - you dial 0870 (national rate number) and have to wait excessive and often over an hour in the queue to speak to CS for help ....etc.

The problem with NTL's VOD is the programme choice that you get and the uncertainty of what is going to be available in the next few days.

With Sky+ you can record any programme you want to watch when you want. Two programmes being recorded at the same time whilst you watch a previously recorded programme or one programme being recorded whilst you watch a different live programme is something that NTL cannot provide, yet.

I had a problem with one of my two Sky+ boxes this morning. All sorted by a very good Scottish lady in around 10 minutes without using a 0870 number. Dial 0800 731 6965 and choose option 2 followed by option 4. The call was answered in around one minute.

Originally Posted by ian@huth

Dial 0800 731 6965 and choose option 2 followed by option 4. The call was answered in around one minute.

Would i be correct in saying that is a non documented number. As i have never been given that by Sky or seen it advertised by Sky. In other words i think that is the engineers line and would therefor account for the fast answer times..

So if they have a official 0800 number then i might phone them back and demand my telephone costs back on the grounds they did not inform me they had a 0800 number.

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Fedz

Just thought I'd point out that I've just had to give advice to a Sky customer on how to remove what is in my opinion Sky's pathetic attempt at Video On Demand.

You cannot seriously compare Sky By Broadband with a VOD service. It's not intended to be so, but it does give you an indication of the direction that Sky will be heading in towards the end of this year.

Originally Posted by Fedz

You can't turn off Sky's appliaction - even after you un-install it

More hassle than it's worth and a costly one at that

How so? I thought SBB is free to existing subscribers, right?

Originally Posted by Fedz

Obviously I can understand your complaint regarding slow/sluggish/freezing of ntl's menu(s).

If you have/use a Pace DSTB - I've found having/using the Samsung DSTB eliminates 90% of the above.

That may be correct, but most customers do not have a Samsung box, and even newer Pace boxes are no cure for the problem. Have spent long enough on this forum I have seen that Samsung boxes are no magic cure for all ills either.

Originally Posted by Fedz

Sky+ (which is just normal Sky and a hard drive/recorder - not VOD) is very highly prone to slowness/sluggish and freezing + more.

That's not my experience at all. We got rid of ntl back in November in favour of Sky+, we have a v4 Pace box. It's much, much quicker than the ntl box we had. We've had one crash in that time, and it rebooted itself and all was well again.

There have been no picture freezes (the picture quality is a actually a bit better than ntl btw) the interactive actually works and there is zero sluggishness.

Whilst it's not a perfect system, it's the closest I've seen to one.

But you're right, it's not VOD. I thought the introduction of VOD in the final months before giving ntl their marching orders was a great thing. But then I got to use it...or not quite often. The system worked OK, but it was flaky at times. It looks poor, the key pushes are prone to severe latency. But then there's the biggest problem, the human aspect. Sadly the processes they have in place for 'recording' BBC programmes 'off-air' is flawed at best. Often programmes are missed or take several days to appear.

I went into the Sky+ concept to use it like a VOD system, in that I would set it to record lots of stuff that I didn't know whether I wanted to watch or not.

The biggest difference of course is that I can have pseudo-VOD from hundreds of channels, rather than just a handful of programmes from six channels (for no extra charge anyway). Also I can start watching one of my VOD programmes whilst the end is still playing out. I would have to wait a couple of days to pass with ntl woudln't I?

Personally, I think I can be objective enough to say that there are good and bad bits for both systems. The ideal situation would be a box that did both, but that isn't available yet. But it will come this year, and that's an exciting prospect.

But if I had to choose either ntl's VOD or Sky+ - no contest...Sky+ is the winner.

Originally Posted by Fedz

ntl - you can freephone for help and or engineers to help resolve the problem.
Sky - you dial 0870 (national rate number) and have to wait excessive and often over an hour in the queue to speak to CS for help ....etc.

Your point about 0870 numbers is very true, and I think it's poor to expect your customers to spend 10p a minute on a call that could potentially last a long time. No doubt Sky make a reasonable sum of money from this and have quite rightly come in for a lot of stick for it.

The flip side of the argument is that I have never experienced the kind of delays you're speaking about. I have only had one reason to call Sky since we subscribed; as we were coinciding our subscription with our new house, they sent the card to the wrong address (the new one) before we moved in, so I was a little worried it hadn't arrived. The call queue was approx 2 mins, the problem took a little longer to sort out (it appears that Sky's customer services are almost as bad as nt's) but it did get sorted by someone who knew what they were talking about.

Compare this to ntl, where despite being a free call, you can often be waiting for 20-30 mins (although it's a lot better these days than it used to be) and you get through to someone who knows virtually nothing about their products/services. There was a post on here the other day from an ex-CS operative who admitted that they 'made up' answers with regards to which channels were in certain TV packages.

I would point out as an aside that I have been immnesely impressed with BT's customer service pepople. They come in for a lot of stick, just like Sky's and ntl's - but in my experience so far (and unlike ntl and Sky) I can see no justification for it. I have made a few calls to chop and change calling feautures, sort out itemised billing etc, and every time (even at 6pm, which I would assume to be a peak time) the queues have been very short, the staff are friendly, seem to be happy and certainly understand the questions and answers. There's something for ntl to aspire to.

[Downloads]

Originally Posted by andygrif

But if I had to choose either ntl's VOD or Sky+ - no contest...Sky+ is the winner.

You are right you can't compare VoD to Sky+ at all, they are different things. NTLs version of Sky+ isn't released yet. VoD is something separate, and Sky's version is woeful and if they think customers will sign up for it in large numbers then they are having a laugh. Average Joe won't have a clue how to use it.

Personally, i would choose VoD over Sky+ because when NTL release their version of Sky+, NTL customers will still have VoD in addition to this and easy to use (no doubt a new box will make VoD quicker etc. too). Sky customers however will still be left with a paethetic Broadband attmept at VoD which won't win any customers at all. All i have to do is wait a bit, and while i am paying a lot less than Sky Customers (Sky don't do deals or discounts, i have 2 colleagues who have the same packages as me but i am probably paying £20 less) the wait is a very happy one

However it's all personal preference at the end of the day. Nobody can say Sky is better or NTL is better because it isn't true, different strokes for different folks.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Would i be correct in saying that is a non documented number. As i have never been given that by Sky or seen it advertised by Sky. In other words i think that is the engineers line and would therefor account for the fast answer times..

So if they have a official 0800 number then i might phone them back and demand my telephone costs back on the grounds they did not inform me they had a 0800 number.

I just did a search on Digital Spy to get that number. The problem with my Sky+ Thomson box was that when I went to watch TV this morning all I got was a blue screen and no button presses on the remote did anything. A reboot of the box didn't cure the problem so I was unable to go into the Services menu to find the contact telephone number. DS gave the 0800 number which is the same number as given on http://www.saynoto0870.com/companysearch.php . Apparantly the number is a Retailers Installation number. The Sky agent was able to clear the problem by remote access via the satellite to my box after I had told her what steps I had taken to resolve the issue. She didn't make me go through all the rebooting, check cables, etc that many support people take you through even after you have told them what you have tried. Good service from Sky.

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:16 ----------

Originally Posted by gruff_rhodes

You are right you can't compare VoD to Sky+ at all, they are different things. NTLs version of Sky+ isn't released yet. VoD is something separate, and Sky's version is woeful and if they think customers will sign up for it in large numbers then they are having a laugh. Average Joe won't have a clue how to use it.

Personally, i would choose VoD over Sky+ because when NTL release their version of Sky+, NTL customers will still have VoD in addition to this and easy to use (no doubt a new box will make VoD quicker etc. too). Sky customers however will still be left with a paethetic Broadband attmept at VoD which won't win any customers at all. All i have to do is wait a bit, and while i am paying a lot less than Sky Customers (Sky don't do deals or discounts, i have 2 colleagues who have the same packages as me but i am probably paying £20 less) the wait is a very happy one

However it's all personal preference at the end of the day. Nobody can say Sky is better or NTL is better because it isn't true, different strokes for different folks.

I got rid of NTL DTV before VOD came on the scene so have no personal experience of it. From what I have heard about NTL VOD it appears to mainly be repeats of programmes already shown live in the days previous. There does not appear to be any advance notice of what may be appearing on the service. How can this be better than Sky+?

With Sky+ you can decide what you want to view in advance of the live screening from the full selection of all the channels on the EPG including Box Office films not being restricted to a few offerings from half a dozen channels. If you record Box Office films you do not pay for them unless you watch the recording so you can line up a few films and not worry if you don't have chance to view them. Basically to me VOD sounds like you have a chance to view repeats of programmes if you are lucky enough to find the ones you want on VOD which Sky+ owners could have pre-programmed to record with certainty.

Sky By Broadband is something different to VOD and has uses which make it a useful addition to normal Sky+ viewing. You can download a selection of films overnight to your laptop for viewing away from home.

NTL have their own PVR coming soon. Sky have also got a new feature in the pipeline. For some months now new Sky+ boxes have come with a 160GB hard drive rather than the 40Gb drive previously used. This has 80GB for customer use giving an average of 40 hours recording time against previous boxes 20 hours. The other 80GB is reserved for Sky use with the favoured guess being that it will be used for downloading 40 hours of content similar to NTL's VOD content during periods when one of the Sky+ tuners is free. We will have to wait to see what it's actual use is for as Sky are no doubt keeping full details secret in order to have a response of something new when NTL actually get their PVR off the ground.