Is Tony Blair ignoring our vital national interests?

Theodoric · 13-11-2003, 19:17

On Horizon tonight, which I shall be watching, there is a programme on whether Britain, together with north western Europe, could be heading for another 'Little Ice Age'. In essence, the argument is that large amounts of fresh water produced by global warming will stop the oceanic 'pump' that keeps the Gulf Stream going. The warm water of the Gulf Stream is why we do not have a climate like Labrador; if it stops, expect extremely cold winters, the Thames freezing in winter and sea ice off the White Cliffs of Dover.

Now let us get one thing straight. This is only a theory, but it is based on solid science and it is a definite risk to our vital national interests. So what is Tony Blair doing? Well, he makes a few noises but, in practice, he is doing nothing. Instead of forming alliances with other countries threatened by possible global warming and taking a hard line against America, he apparently prefers basking in the glow of President Bush's approval and asking, "How high?" when told to jump.

Meanwhile, the Americans, who take their vital national interests (or the interests of the major companies; take your choice) much more seriously than Tony Blair takes ours, are making vigorous attempts to rubbish Global Warming to avoid any need to curb back on their profligate energy use.

So, in a few decades time, while you're all half frozen to death and the UK economy is is in terminal decline, you will have the dubious satisfaction of cursing Tony Blair as the arrogant, self-satisfied person that he seems to be.

Jerrek · 13-11-2003, 19:34

If you're worried about global warming, go after China, Indonesia, and Brazil. Those people like to burn trees, which is a double negative: you pollute, AND you kill trees which removes those pollution.

downquark1 · 13-11-2003, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek

If you're worried about global warming, go after China, Indonesia, and Brazil. Those people like to burn trees, which is a double negative: you pollute, AND you kill trees which removes those pollution.

So you suggest we revert back to a pre-fire civilisation while America continues to destroy the gulf currents anyway.

Has anyone else noticed how this is an unusally warm autum or the lack of rain? It begins

Xaccers · 13-11-2003, 19:55

Nuclear power.
Doesn't cause global warming
And then once fusion power is up and running, go over to that

13-11-2003, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek

If you're worried about global warming, go after China, Indonesia, and Brazil. Those people like to burn trees, which is a double negative: you pollute, AND you kill trees which removes those pollution.

Burning trees is ok, so long as you plant new ones at the same rate you burn them. There was an experimental power station set up to explore the practicality of such a scheme using coppiced Willow as the fuel source - it achieved good results, but was mothballed due to lack of funding - which kinda proves Theodoric's theory.

downquark1 · 13-11-2003, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Nuclear power.
Doesn't cause global warming
And then once fusion power is up and running, go over to that

Nuclear Fusion is already here - the oil companies are holding it back

[/end paranoia]

Jerrek · 13-11-2003, 22:14

So you suggest we revert back to a pre-fire civilisation while America continues to destroy the gulf currents anyway.
No I suggest you go after the people that are the biggest offenders on a pollution per capita basis.

Has anyone else noticed how this is an unusally warm autum or the lack of rain? It begins
Our fall was cold, and it has already started snowing. Moot point.

Burning trees is ok, so long as you plant new ones at the same rate you burn them.
Which they are not doing in those countries.

downquark1 · 13-11-2003, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Has anyone else noticed how this is an unusally warm autum or the lack of rain? It begins
Our fall was cold, and it has already started snowing. Moot point.
.

I was being entirely serious, we've had record floods in the past few years, record hot summers and an unusually dry autumn. All the signs point to global warming.

Jerrek · 14-11-2003, 00:37

Global warming is a myth. Our winter last year was record cold, and our summer was quite a bit cooler than the one in 1999, 2000, and 2001. Hell, Alberta had snow in June!

philip.j.fry · 14-11-2003, 02:24

Aren't some percentage of greenhouse gases/pollution caused by cows flatulence

Missed the program as was doing the washing up/watching the egyptian program but hopefully it will be repeated. From geography at school I remember though that Ice Ages come and go in a cyclic fashion so maybe it's just time for one.

downquark1 · 14-11-2003, 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Global warming is a myth. Our winter last year was record cold, and our summer was quite a bit cooler than the one in 1999, 2000, and 2001. Hell, Alberta had snow in June!

Hell, if it's not where you are it musn't exist

basa · 14-11-2003, 08:24

There are other theories which rubbish global warming pointing to natural long term variations in weather patterns. These occur over periods of hundreds of years.

Dont forget the Thames did freeze over in 1963, only 40 years ago !! It actually seems to freeze over about once in every 50 years or so. It also floods regularly (hence the barrier), but none of this is indicative of permanent alterations in weather.

La Nina and El Nino also have major effects on world weather but again these are regular, natural and (almost) predictable changes, nothing to do with global warming.

There is no doubt weather patterns have changed, hot areas are becoming cooler and cool areas becoming warmer. This in turn alters all sorts of things from rainfall to sea currents and upper atmosphere jetstreams. But non of it equates to global warming effects IMO.

Even the suns output...which has been increasing since the 17th century...has affected earth temperatures. But recent observations say this may now have peaked and we may be heading for a cooling down period.

Best go get a sledge and dogs then ???

Jerrek · 14-11-2003, 08:26

As to the original question, yes. As a foreigner, it sure looks like Tony Blair is ignoring vital national interests.

duncant403 · 14-11-2003, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by homealone

Burning trees is ok, so long as you plant new ones at the same rate you burn them. There was an experimental power station set up to explore the practicality of such a scheme using coppiced Willow as the fuel source - it achieved good results, but was mothballed due to lack of funding - which kinda proves Theodoric's theory.

The Chinese governemt has a policy that every person in China must plant 10 trees - every year. That's a lot a trees, and should more than compensate for the amount they burn.

14-11-2003, 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Has anyone else noticed how this is an unusally warm autum or the lack of rain? It begins
Our fall was cold, and it has already started snowing. Moot point.

Well our summer was the hottest on record and our winters are milder. I cant remember any SIGNIFICANT snowfall since 1986.
Sure a few years ago (97/98) new years eve the temp in teesside dipped to -27 with windchill. It was indeed a tad parky.

I think the planet is warming up, and the US have to do their fair share. Jerreck you can go blaming other countries but whilst the US refuses to do anything they are just as bad as china etc.