Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | tv licence guess what ?

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs
Register FAQ Community Calendar

Canada In Trouble Again
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 20-11-2003, 11:50   #1
Theodoric
Inactive
 
Theodoric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 2,974
Theodoric has reached the bronze age
Theodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze age
Canada In Trouble Again

It must be the right time of the year as yesterday's Guardian had a full page adert with the headlines, "BOYCOTT CANADA SAVE THE SEALS". It continued in this calm, reasonable fashion with such phrases as "brutally clubbed or shot", "skinned whilst still conscious", "the slaughter is subsidised" and so on. In fact, it would seem that they were so overcome with emotion that they didn't notice that they had misspelt tourism. The obligatory, large photo of a brutal Canadian clubbing a helpless seal seemed a bit on the blurry side; perhaps there is only one photo that is recycled every year.

I'm not sure of the ins and outs of this practice; as I understand it, the Canadians claim that the seals eat too many commercially valuable fish. Their opponents, naturally, deride this and say that it is more to do with Canadian governments bowing to pressure from fishermen. Mind you, considering how Canada catastrophically mishandled the almost total collapse of the Grand Banks cod fisheries, there is probably more than a grain of truth in this. For anyone who wants to delve deeper this site was given in the advert.

In my more cynical moments, I can't help noticing that for an animal to be protected by expensive, full page adverts in the national press, it needs to be mammalian, furry and cute. I am still patiently waiting for the first full page advert calling for a ban on the cruel, year round slaughter of rats. The're mammals, they're furry and they are probably more intelligent than seals. Unfortunately, they lack that crucial attribute, cuteness. Ah, well, they'll probably still be around long after the human race has disappeared from the face of the planet.
Theodoric is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 20-11-2003, 12:01   #2
Chris
Trollsplatter
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,049
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodoric
Guardian
And you're surprised, why exactly?
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 12:46   #3
basa
Inactive
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: S Manchester
Age: 76
Posts: 1,766
basa has a bronzed appealbasa has a bronzed appeal
basa has a bronzed appealbasa has a bronzed appealbasa has a bronzed appealbasa has a bronzed appealbasa has a bronzed appealbasa has a bronzed appeal
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodoric
I am still patiently waiting for the first full page advert calling for a ban on the cruel, year round slaughter of rats. The're mammals, they're furry and they are probably more intelligent than seals. Unfortunately, they lack that crucial attribute, cuteness. Ah, well, they'll probably still be around long after the human race has disappeared from the face of the planet.
Hey...rats are cute !!!

We had a Fancy Rat ('fancy' is used for the type of rat used as pets) pet a while back. He was the friendliest, most sweet natured and clean rodent my family have ever had ! And they are extremely intelligent. Unlike those vicious hamster things !!

Unfortunately he died from unnatural causes !

And yes they will still be around (together with the cockroaches !! ) long after we humans have nuked everything else off the planet !! Now that's resourceful !
basa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 13:08   #4
aliferste
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Glasgow
Age: 51
Posts: 1,831
aliferste has reached the bronze age
aliferste has reached the bronze agealiferste has reached the bronze agealiferste has reached the bronze age
Send a message via MSN to aliferste
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by towny
And you're surprised, why exactly?

Whats up with the Guardian?
__________________
The Urban Fly Fisher
aliferste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 13:13   #5
Chris
Trollsplatter
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,049
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by aliferste
Whats up with the Guardian?
Everybody has an agenda ... the Guardian's agenda is one I happen to have little time for.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 13:17   #6
downquark1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Age: 38
Services: Plusnet FFTC
Posts: 4,938
downquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appeal
downquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by towny
Everybody has an agenda ... the Guardian's agenda is one I happen to have little time for.
Care to enlighten us ?
downquark1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 13:27   #7
Theodoric
Inactive
 
Theodoric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 2,974
Theodoric has reached the bronze age
Theodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze age
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by towny
Everybody has an agenda ... the Guardian's agenda is one I happen to have little time for.
It was an advert. Like all newspapers, the Grauniad will publish most adverts if you put a big enough bundle of used fivers into their grubby, little mitts.

Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about cute, furry animals, or even cute, furry Canadians if that's what you fancy.
Theodoric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 13:29   #8
Chris
Trollsplatter
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,049
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by downquark1
Care to enlighten us ?
What's to enlighten? The Guardian is a left-wing pamphlet for the chattering classes. This is no secret, it's not something the Guardian is ashamed of and neither should it be. It is good at producing the material its target audience wants to read (much like the Sun in that respect).

I don't feel challenged or engaged by any writer whose position on any given subject is such that I can guess what they're going to say before they even start writing. I like to read balanced, well researched material, not essays by people with an agenda to push, unless I have deliberately set out to investigate that agenda for myself.

Yesterday's fromt page lead in the Guardian, which (like the BBC) sought to talk up the possibility of mass protest at every possible opportunity, strayed beyond factual journalism and well into leader-writing territory, yet it was presented as a straight news story.

Incidentally, I would make broadly the same criticism of the Daily Mail, before you all conclude I'm some narrow-minded Tory-voting little Englander
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 13:50   #9
Theodoric
Inactive
 
Theodoric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 2,974
Theodoric has reached the bronze age
Theodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze ageTheodoric has reached the bronze age
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by towny
<Snip>Yesterday's fromt page lead in the Guardian, which (like the BBC) sought to talk up the possibility of mass protest at every possible opportunity, strayed beyond factual journalism and well into leader-writing territory, yet it was presented as a straight news story.
I would beg to differ on this. I've just re-read yesterday's article. On my reading, it was mainly a factual account, peppered with a few mildly sarcastic comments. It didn't support the visit, but it definitely didn't encourage protests.

Para 1 said "controversial visit". This is factually correct.

Para 2 said "700-strong entourage worthy of a travelling medieval monarch" in the middle of a factual description of his arrival.

Para 3 said "With up to 100,000 anti-war protestors planning . . . Downing Street maintained a stiff upper lip". A reasonable guess. The rest of para was neutral and was only supportive in that terms such as "renta-mob" were not used.

The next 10 or so paras reported, without any slant, comments made by British and US government spokesmen, discussed the Gaurdian poll that showed pro-American support and discussed possible topics for the Blair-Bush talks; again all factual matters, all presented in an unbiassed fashion.

There was a paragraph discussing the probable make-up of the protestors and a statement from Ken Livingstone calling for any protests to be kept peaceful and warning about the costs.
Theodoric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 14:26   #10
Chris
Trollsplatter
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,049
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodoric
I would beg to differ on this. I've just re-read yesterday's article. On my reading, it was mainly a factual account, peppered with a few mildly sarcastic comments. It didn't support the visit, but it definitely didn't encourage protests.

Para 1 said "controversial visit". This is factually correct.

Para 2 said "700-strong entourage worthy of a travelling medieval monarch" in the middle of a factual description of his arrival.

Para 3 said "With up to 100,000 anti-war protestors planning . . . Downing Street maintained a stiff upper lip". A reasonable guess. The rest of para was neutral and was only supportive in that terms such as "renta-mob" were not used.

The next 10 or so paras reported, without any slant, comments made by British and US government spokesmen, discussed the Gaurdian poll that showed pro-American support and discussed possible topics for the Blair-Bush talks; again all factual matters, all presented in an unbiassed fashion.

There was a paragraph discussing the probable make-up of the protestors and a statement from Ken Livingstone calling for any protests to be kept peaceful and warning about the costs.
Journalistic turns-of-phrase like 'up to' can be used to justify the wild inflation of guestimate figures, as in 'up to 100,000'. Phrases like 'medieval monarch' speak volumes and as for 'controversial' - well, I think this is an attempt at a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's only controversial because the agenda-setters tell us it is so.

What is telling is not so much the number of instances of comment of this kind in the article, but where they appear. As you have shown, they are in pars 1, 2 and 3. This is where any journalist deploys what he considers to be his biggest punches.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 14:40   #11
Boom
Inactive
 
Boom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Surrey
Posts: 2,130
Boom is on a distinguished roadBoom is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Boom
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodoric
It must be the right time of the year as yesterday's Guardian had a full page adert with the headlines, "BOYCOTT CANADA SAVE THE SEALS". It continued in this calm, reasonable fashion with such phrases as "brutally clubbed or shot", "skinned whilst still conscious", "the slaughter is subsidised" and so on. In fact, it would seem that they were so overcome with emotion that they didn't notice that they had misspelt tourism. The obligatory, large photo of a brutal Canadian clubbing a helpless seal seemed a bit on the blurry side; perhaps there is only one photo that is recycled every year.

I'm not sure of the ins and outs of this practice; as I understand it, the Canadians claim that the seals eat too many commercially valuable fish. Their opponents, naturally, deride this and say that it is more to do with Canadian governments bowing to pressure from fishermen. Mind you, considering how Canada catastrophically mishandled the almost total collapse of the Grand Banks cod fisheries, there is probably more than a grain of truth in this. For anyone who wants to delve deeper this site was given in the advert.

In my more cynical moments, I can't help noticing that for an animal to be protected by expensive, full page adverts in the national press, it needs to be mammalian, furry and cute. I am still patiently waiting for the first full page advert calling for a ban on the cruel, year round slaughter of rats. The're mammals, they're furry and they are probably more intelligent than seals. Unfortunately, they lack that crucial attribute, cuteness. Ah, well, they'll probably still be around long after the human race has disappeared from the face of the planet.
Glad to see the other ppl aren't as swayed by Guardian's view point which, as a Canadian, I find laughable.

First, I agree the Canadian government panders to fishermen for votes, but then the liberally-minded one party-state ( yes, LIBERAL government! Left if you will) couldn't organise a p!ss up at a pub.

As for the Grand Banks, they are not in Canada's 100 or even 200 mile offshore international limit. Traulers from all over the world fish there. The moratorium on Cod catching is still in effect while not having completely stopped fishing, has at least made a token jesture towards culling fishing, is still more than any other nation has done.

So when is it exactly that the fishing in the North Sea is banned, or has it already been over-fished by Brits, Nordics, and Northern Europeans?
Boom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 19:39   #12
Graham
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by towny
What's to enlighten? The Guardian is a left-wing pamphlet for the chattering classes. [snip] Incidentally, I would make broadly the same criticism of the Daily Mail, before you all conclude I'm some narrow-minded Tory-voting little Englander
And the Torygraph is a right wing pamplet for those who only want their views corroborated by an "official source"

And the Sun is for those who don't care who runs the country as long as she has big knockers!
  Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 20:06   #13
Chris
Trollsplatter
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,049
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
And the Torygraph is a right wing pamplet for those who only want their views corroborated by an "official source"

And the Sun is for those who don't care who runs the country as long as she has big knockers!
As we seem to be saying a lot lately, everyone has an agenda of one kind or another.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 21:15   #14
downquark1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Age: 38
Services: Plusnet FFTC
Posts: 4,938
downquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appeal
downquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appealdownquark1 has a bronzed appeal
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
It's only controversial because the agenda-setters tell us it is so.
I think the mass public protests are proof enough of the controversiality. Controversial is a very neutral word, unlike 'stupid' or 'brilliant'. Controversial in its self implies there are two views.
downquark1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2003, 21:23   #15
Chris
Trollsplatter
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,049
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Canada In Trouble Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by downquark1
I think the mass public protests are proof enough of the controversiality. Controversial is a very neutral word, unlike 'stupid' or 'brilliant'. Controversial in its self implies there are two views.
But how do you define 'mass protest'? The demonstrators claimed there were 200,000 people out today - the police said more like 30-40,000. Personally, I think the police are more likely to know what they're talking about, so the protesters fell well short of their aspirations.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:47.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum