Good or Bad Idea?

[Tiptoes]

http://www.englishpm.demon.co.uk/

English Parliament...... Im all for it are there any who disagree and if so why ?

We already have an English Parliament.

Without having yet read that entire website, I get the impression they have some fairly fundamental misunderstandings about the history of Great Britain and Ireland. The Crown was unified in 1603, but for another 100 years there sat two Parliaments - one in Edinburgh, the other in Westminster. Scotland's Parliament wound up in or around, I think, 1703, and from that point on the English Parliament in Westminster became a single Parliament for Great Britain.

Wales does not figure in this because it was annexed by England following Edward I's campaigns in the late 13th and early 14th centuries and officially had no political identity of its own from that point on.

So, what Labour has done is to give Wales a political identity it never previously had, and to partially restore Scotland's political independence. Thus, the 'UK Parliament' is one step closer to becoming the Parlaiment of England once more.

What is now required is not an expensive, time wasting additional layer of local Government - let's be frank here, the UK Government is not going to hand over any significant power to an 'English Parliament' - but the completion of the devolution settlement by answering what has been called the 'West Lothian Question', so called as it was initially raised by by Westl Lothian MP Tam Dalyell. Why should Scottish MPs influence English legislation in a devolved scenario in which English MPs were unable to influence matters north of the border?

The answer, to me, is simple. The UK Parliament is overwhelmingly made up of English/Welsh MPs (remember for purposes of enacting Primary legislation England and Wales is a single national entity). So the UK Parliament is best placed to decide English/Welsh matters, with Scottish MPs excluded from voting. We have taken a small step towards this by reducing the number of Scottish Westminster MPs to more accurately reflect the population of Scotland. (Previously, Scotland was over-represented at Westminster to avoid Scottish issues getting swamped or dominated by Engish/Welsh ones).

[Tiptoes]

"Thus, the 'UK Parliament' is one step closer to becoming the Parlaiment of England once more."

It doesnt feel like that though when a Bill on the NHS has just seen the scottish MPs push it through?


How did this happen if what your claiming is correct?

[Xaccers]

I think what Towny is suggesting (please forgive me if I'm wrong) is that on matters pertaining to England only, Scottish MP's are excluded.

As you have said this is not the current case, but it should be.

Seems like an easy and cheap process to impliment, so it's not likely to happen (cynical? who me?)

Originally Posted by Tiptoes

"Thus, the 'UK Parliament' is one step closer to becoming the Parlaiment of England once more."

It doesnt feel like that though when a Bill on the NHS has just seen the scottish MPs push it through?


How did this happen if what your claiming is correct?

As Xaccers said, I'm suggesting what should be, not what is. In reducing the number of Scottish MPs, the UK Parliament will soon be able to legislate on UK issues according to a true and democratic representation of the population of the UK. It is closer to being legitimate as an Enlish Parlaiment because there is less input from Scottish MPs when the UK Parliament legislates on matters affecting only England/Wales. In order to complete the process, I am suggesting that Scottish MPs should be excluded from the chamber when votes on England/Wales issues are held. In this way, the same institution that was once the English Parliament can once more function as the English Parliament when necessary, without the waste of time and money that would be required to build a new institution.

[Tiptoes]

Originally Posted by towny

As Xaccers said, I'm suggesting what should be, not what is. In reducing the number of Scottish MPs, the UK Parliament will soon be able to legislate on UK issues according to a true and democratic representation of the population of the UK. It is closer to being legitimate as an Enlish Parlaiment because there is less input from Scottish MPs when the UK Parliament legislates on matters affecting only England/Wales. In order to complete the process, I am suggesting that Scottish MPs should be excluded from the chamber when votes on England/Wales issues are held. In this way, the same institution that was once the English Parliament can once more function as the English Parliament when necessary, without the waste of time and money that would be required to build a new institution.

Yep tis a good idea........

Im stil unsure about a totally seperate parliament but in the interest of fairness why not?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Tiptoes

Yep tis a good idea........

Im stil unsure about a totally seperate parliament but in the interest of fairness why not?

I think it makes sence, if something only affects England, then why should non English MP's have a say, in the same way as why should English MP's have a say in something that only affects Scotland?

Originally Posted by Tiptoes

Yep tis a good idea........

Im stil unsure about a totally seperate parliament but in the interest of fairness why not?

Principally the cost - an effective Parliament for England, governing 40 million (?) people, would be a vastly expensive business. Then there's the question of the calibre of those elcted to it. Both the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliament have suffered from being populated largely by ambitious former district councillors (this is particularly so in Wales). Fact is, the most able politicians are at Westminster.

Another big problem is the fact that the Welsh Assembly is not a Parliament. It can't pass Primary Legislation, it can only make secondary orders based on legislation already passed in London. So any legislating Parliament for England would also have to perform the same function for Wales. This would both defeat the object of having an English Parliament and enrage the Plaidos in Wales, who don't like being reminded that Wales historically has no official identity separate from England. The Welsh Assembly is really just a jumped up county council (there are only 3 million people in Wales) and is thoroughly ill-qualified to become a Parliament itself.

A better solution might be to reclaim the Wesminster Parliament as ours and set up a new UK Parliament, attended by delegates from Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland, which would convene only when whole-UK matters are under discussion.