End of the Special Relationship

TheDaddy · 29-03-2010, 05:50

Good, never thought that it was that special anyway.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ip-over-poodle

papa smurf · 29-03-2010, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Good, never thought that it was that special anyway.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ip-over-poodle

i think there was a special relationship back in the ww2 era ,and we probably would now be run from Europe

without their help .but in recent times i think we were there just to add legitimacy to their wars ,i think there will always be a pact of mutual protection between us ,but going to war on their say so is no longer an option imo.

Osem · 29-03-2010, 09:27

The 'special' relationship has increasingly become a one way street heading west. Like any relationship in which one side is taken for granted, a period of separation might just help redress the balance and if it doesn't, well the two sides are better off apart forging new partnerships but hopefully remaining friends. Of course if these new partnerships fail to meet expectations there may be a reconciliation of the original parties and, hopefully, the creation of a new, fairer relationship. I won't be holding my breath however as the yanks tend to like things their way or no way....

Russ · 29-03-2010, 09:33

Anyone remember that scene in Love Actually where Hugh Grant, as the Prime Minister tells the US president to shove it where the sun doesn't shine? That alone would almost secure my vote for the party promising to repeat it.

29-03-2010, 09:40

Amongst many normal american people there is an affection for the UK and i personally experienced it many times when i was in the US but politically that isn't the case. Despite all the people who hail obama as some sort of saviour the man is an individualistic oppurtunist and has no real allegiance to anyone or anything and i don't and never have felt he was the warm caring person many would like us to believe.

Bush i think had more affection for the UK and made maximum use of it partly aided by a PM who also had an agenda beyond that of the interests of the UK. But i do think the time has come for the UK to back away from the US for a bit and only partner where there is a clear benefit for us in doing so unlike the recent past where the benefit has been all oneway.

nomadking · 29-03-2010, 09:49

It's not as if there was any pressure or bullying as with the attitude of France and Germany. They keep saying that if you don't go along with what they want, you are not truly part of the EU. A example is the recent talks about Greece. France and Germany talk together to agree a plan and only then the other countries in the Euro-zone get told about it. The other countries are not allowed to take part in the original discussions.

injuneer · 29-03-2010, 09:56

The USA is losing it's number one world power spot to China so maybe we should cosy up to them?

Osem · 29-03-2010, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by injuneer

The USA is losing it's number one world power spot to China so maybe we should cosy up to them?

They don't really need/want partners but would probably quite like to see our existing alliances break down.

TheDaddy · 29-03-2010, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i think there was a special relationship back in the ww2 era ,and we probably would now be run from Europe

without their help .but in recent times i think we were there just to add legitimacy to their wars ,i think there will always be a pact of mutual protection between us ,but going to war on their say so is no longer an option imo.

Pact of mutual protection, sounds like NATO to me

---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:44 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

It's not as if there was any pressure or bullying as with the attitude of France and Germany. They keep saying that if you don't go along with what they want, you are not truly part of the EU. A example is the recent talks about Greece. France and Germany talk together to agree a plan and only then the other countries in the Euro-zone get told about it. The other countries are not allowed to take part in the original discussions.

Personally I'd like to see us get closer with the Commonwealth nations rather than the US or Europe, the only group of nations we can truly rely on in any circumstances, although our influence among nations has been severly diluted thanks to our blindly following a certain US president over recent years.

Hom3r · 29-03-2010, 13:06

IIRC Harold MacMillan was looking in to the UK beoming the 51st US state

Ignitionnet · 29-03-2010, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r

IIRC Harold MacMillan was looking in to the UK beoming the 51st US state

Wouldn't ever have worked, the US states are far too focussed on silly things like democracy, the will of their electorate and respecting individual privacy, liberty (in most things) and freedom for us to have blended in with our pervasive state interference and disrespect for individual freedom.

The special relationship has brought us little of value for a while so c'est la vie. We've no reason in the modern world to expect any special treatment from Barack Obama and have been sucking up to the US for quite long enough.

frogstamper · 30-03-2010, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

It's not as if there was any pressure or bullying as with the attitude of France and Germany. They keep saying that if you don't go along with what they want, you are not truly part of the EU. A example is the recent talks about Greece. France and Germany talk together to agree a plan and only then the other countries in the Euro-zone get told about it. The other countries are not allowed to take part in the original discussions.

The bi-lateral talks between France and Germany over Greece was probably because the pair of them would be putting in by far the lions share of cash in any rescue package for Greece, as regards the UK being involved in this intial discussion what was the point, we are not in the euro.

Regarding the so called special relationship, how special is it when for the last 25 years when British PM's have met the President each time our back-room boys have always insisted that the President mention the special relationship, "courtesy of Chris Meyer ex British ambassador to the US".
According to Meyer its the British politicians who are obsessed with this phrase, and that the Americans just parrot it to keep us happy.
I think the only big time occasion that the UK has said a firm no to the US was in the 60's when President Johnson on numerous occasions tried to get Harold Wilson to commit British troops into the Vietnam meat-grinder, and to he's lasting credit he flatly refused...not a bad legacy.
I wonder what the response would have been had Blair or Thatcher been in power?

01-04-2010, 11:35

Blair would have said yes where would you like me to put our troops and thacther would have told him to take a long walk off a short cliff. Not a hard one to answer there and in thatchers time it could be argued we had the better end of whatever special relationship there was although after that we certainly had the brown end of the stick.

TheDaddy · 01-04-2010, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

in thatchers time it could be argued we had the better end of whatever special relationship there was

any evidence for that argument?

Pierre · 01-04-2010, 14:26

Im don't think there has ever been a "special" relationship. We have always been close allies and that is all.

If ever in the future it all kicked off, over whatever reason.

I know that I'd rather have Uncle Sam on my team, than our French, and German cousins