Analysts view on Liberty Global & ITV

Some interesting views on the deal, including a small section on how Virgin,could use ITV content to its advantage if it did buy the rest of the business.

In other reports, not this one, they claim it was VM CEO who was behind pushing this deal through?

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...v-plans-719260

[muppetman11]

This is an interesting read on why content is important and the challenges platforms are looking to overcome.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...nd-Google.html

[Pierre]

I think it obvious now that everybody is of the thinking that not only do you need to own the network, but you also need to own the content.

This is happening both ways.

VM, network owner, no investing in content.

Google and Facebook, content owners, now building their own fibre networks. You can probably also add sky to that. They own their own backbone fibre network, but now they're building their own fibre access network with City fibre (although google are trying to hijack that deal)

[muppetman11]

Currently we have networks from VM and Openreach are we likely to see another provider build up a significant fibre network ? Aren't the two projects Sky are involved in completely different ? Whilst they are both FTTH the York project is underground with the trial in Basingstoke being fibre run overhead I believe.

[Ignitionnet]

The Google / CityFibre conversation was quite a while ago. Zero threat to the Sky/TalkTalk/CityFibre project.

[Kushan]

Pretty sure the Google / CityFibre talks broke down some time ago, due to CityFibre's relationship with Sky. Google won't be coming to the UK any time soon, sadly.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Pretty sure the Google / CityFibre talks broke down some time ago, due to CityFibre's relationship with Sky. Google won't be coming to the UK any time soon, sadly.

Google fibre only exists in the US because there's no LLU and residents are left with a stark choice between slow ADSL or expensive fibre bundled with pay TV. Fortunately, we in Europe have far more choice thanks to LLU.

[Kushan]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Google fibre only exists in the US because there's no LLU and residents are left with a stark choice between slow ADSL or expensive fibre bundled with pay TV. Fortunately, we in Europe have far more choice thanks to LLU.

Then why were Google talking to CityFibre at all?

You're right about the situation in the US and it's an appalling one, but I think Google's reasoning is that not enough was being invested in the infrastructure so they took matters into their own hands in the place that mattered most - their own back yard, where arguably the situation was worse.

Europe is certainly much better, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the best choice. FTTC speeds of 80Mbit might be a great jump from where we were a few years ago, but it still pales in comparison to what Google wants to provide - and that's before even looking at the upstream. Even if Virgin were to double their speeds again tomorrow, it wouldn't compare to Google's pure fibre so I wouldn't rule out Google deploying at all. I'm sure they will, eventually, though it looks as though they'd rather partner with an existing ISP than build the entire network themselves.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Then why were Google talking to CityFibre at all?

You're right about the situation in the US and it's an appalling one, but I think Google's reasoning is that not enough was being invested in the infrastructure so they took matters into their own hands in the place that mattered most - their own back yard, where arguably the situation was worse.

Europe is certainly much better, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the best choice. FTTC speeds of 80Mbit might be a great jump from where we were a few years ago, but it still pales in comparison to what Google wants to provide - and that's before even looking at the upstream. Even if Virgin were to double their speeds again tomorrow, it wouldn't compare to Google's pure fibre so I wouldn't rule out Google deploying at all. I'm sure they will, eventually, though it looks as though they'd rather partner with an existing ISP than build the entire network themselves.

I agree with most of your comments. I don't think it will harm Google for it to have a small degree of involvement with fibre outside the US. I see this more as a way of it encouraging incumbent operators to invest in faster broadband than for Google to want to own sizeable networks of its own. Hence the CityFibre talks.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Google fibre only exists in the US because there's no LLU and residents are left with a stark choice between slow ADSL or expensive fibre bundled with pay TV. Fortunately, we in Europe have far more choice thanks to LLU.

Well, their choice was ADSL or cable. The monopoly telco ADSL provider or the cable company.

Google's work was a tech trial to see what extra advertising revenue they could make.

LLU is a false dichotomy. Fundamentally it's exactly the same thing served from a variety of retail operators. The underlying connection between user and exchange is no better, you aren't magically moved closer to the exchange because you're on LLU. The backhaul network is different, that's about it.

Frankly LLU is a pain in the arse. The people offering it are addicted to it as they've tied themselves to copper broadband and don't want to let it go in favour of partial or full fibre connections as it renders their investment in most of their exchange-based equipment redundant.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Well, their choice was ADSL or cable. The monopoly telco ADSL provider or the cable company.

Google's work was a tech trial to see what extra advertising revenue they could make.

LLU is a false dichotomy. Fundamentally it's exactly the same thing served from a variety of retail operators. The underlying connection between user and exchange is no better, you aren't magically moved closer to the exchange because you're on LLU. The backhaul network is different, that's about it.

Frankly LLU is a pain in the arse. The people offering it are addicted to it as they've tied themselves to copper broadband and don't want to let it go in favour of partial or full fibre connections as it renders their investment in most of their exchange-based equipment redundant.

LLU is not about technology but about markets and has proved its worth in many countries.
If companies in the UK like Sky and TalkTalk want to develop their own fibre-to-the-home networks then they are free to do so. Crucially, they have the customer base to make their efforts viable thanks to their customer base acquired via LLU. This outweighs the cost of their equipment in exchanges which is in any case, written down very quickly.

[muppetman11]

As I understand it BSKYB are looking to buy Sky Italia and purcase Fox's 57 percent stake in Sky Deutschland creating a Sky Europe , I've since read that Murdoch could potentially sell his 39% stake in BSKYB and people are already speculating buyers for Sky Europe further down the line.

An eventual takeover of a European Sky by telecommunications-network owners such as Vodafone or billionaire John Malone’s Liberty Global Plc (LBTYA) may take place, but it will be difficult to create value from such a deal, Stonex said.

http://businessweek.com/news/2014-07...-investor-says

Would Liberty be allowed such a purchase being that they already own VM which operates in a region Sky Does ?

[Kushan]

I can't see LG being allowed to buy Sky in the UK if they were to go for "Sky Europe". Sky is practically a content monopoly as it is but then again, the landscape has changed now that we have BT, TalkTalk, Netflix, etc. throwing themselves into the fray.

I don't think it would happen, though.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by muppetman11

Would Liberty be allowed such a purchase being that they already own VM which operates in a region Sky Does ?

I certainly can't see Liberty being allowed to purchase Sky Europe due to competition issues in Germany, Ireland and the UK.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I certainly can't see Liberty being allowed to purchase Sky Europe due to competition issues in Germany, Ireland and the UK.

There are probably ways around that though, for example they could split the company into 2 parts, content and distribution, agreeing with the competitions folk that they will then sell the distribution piece?

I do agree though that it's unlikely but the way things are changing you never know