Welfare or Soldiers?

There seems to be a row brewing about the upcoming defence spending review .Philip Hammond seems to be suggesting that his department has been cut enough and further cuts should be made to the welfare budget ,lib dems feel the welfare budget should be protected .
Personally ,although against massive welfare spending i think we could cut the MOD budget a lot more ,we don't need a huge standing army and i think that the MOD can do a lot better as regards it's procurement

Defence Secretary Philip Hammond has warned he will resist further cuts to the armed forces in Chancellor George Osborne's forthcoming spending review.
After Downing Street said publicly last month that the military would not be immune from further financial retrenchment, Mr Hammond has vowed to fight against anything more than modest "efficiency savings".
He said other Conservative Cabinet ministers believed that the greatest burden of any cuts should fall on the welfare budget

http://news.sky.com/story/1059053/de...are-not-troops

[peanut]

I think they should cut child benefit first. Or means test it to a point in line with the means testing of other welfare benefits. Basically if you're not claiming any benefits because you're in work then you shouldn't be getting child support. Or limit it to 1 child max.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I find this the most distasteful article ever, in the fact that l was reading various papers today and found that army personnel who have left the armed forces are now forced to live on the streets, and in poverty.

I simply cannot understand the logic behind this idiotic government and what the aims are.

Government minsters are saying hit the welfare budget to save army personnel, The money that we are saving is going somewhere - but where.

They cannot keep hitting the welfare budget, as this is unfair and extremely cruel. The government have got to stop feeding other countries with our Taxes.

Service who have hit the poverty line and now live in squats to survive, well this is a disgrace to the governments past and present, they put there lives on the line for us and treated like lepers by the government - absolute disgrace.

Its about time MPs took a pay cut, to cover costs, if its good enough for the working people of the UK, its good enough for MPs.

[denphone]

In a ideal world Welfare should be there for those who genuinely need it and especially for those who are genuinely sick and disabled and on the defence of this country l think we have cut enough already and if we cut any more then this will lead to the loss of the UK's armed forces capability.

Originally Posted by peanut

I think they should cut child benefit first. Or means test it to a point in line with the means testing of other welfare benefits. Basically if you're not claiming any benefits because you're in work then you shouldn't be getting child support. Or limit it to 1 child max.

I don't think that would save the level of money they need though and in some cases the fact you may not be claiming any type of benefit is because you are receiving child support

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

I simply cannot understand the logic behind this idiotic government and what the aims are.

Strip the Armed Forces to the bone, relying more-and-more on Reservists (the renamed Territorial Army et al).

Then if something big blows up, bring back mandatory conscription of cannon fodder from the ranks of the mass unemployed?

Originally Posted by denphone

In a ideal world Welfare should be there for those who genuinely need it and especially for those who are genuinely sick and disabled and on the defence of this country l think we have cut enough already and if we cut any more then this will lead to the loss of the UK's armed forces capability.

What capability do we actually need though ?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by martyh

What capability do we actually need though ?

Remember we don't know whats round the corner and to me it would be absolute folly to cut our defence's any more then is already planned.

At this rate we will be back to Victorian values in no time..

Originally Posted by peanut

I think they should cut child benefit first. Or means test it to a point in line with the means testing of other welfare benefits. Basically if you're not claiming any benefits because you're in work then you shouldn't be getting child support. Or limit it to 1 child max.

Yes great idea, families with children struggling to make ends meet who would probably be better off on benefits should not be allowed child support. But those who don't work should be allowed child benefit, Housing benefit, Council tax benefit.

What a stella plan, children see mom and dad working hard to give their kids the best should now suffer because their honest hard working parents refuse to quit work and get EVERTHING paid for them.

This whole, make benefit life more comfortable than working for a living is bull, cut benefits for none workers to an absolute minimum needed for the basics. How about that?

So far you've said ATOS are basically useless as they might cut benefits, and child benefit should be stopped. But your benefits should be untouched?I guess you think you should never have to work, you have the typical "entitlement" selfish mentality of a long term benefit claimant. You don't care what happens or who is effected as long as YOU don't have to go to work.

Originally Posted by denphone

Remember we don't know whats round the corner and to me it would be absolute folly to cut our defence's any more then is already planned.

I think at the moment though the threat level is very low ,we are not in any danger of invasion and our only military commitments are for other countries .Defense cuts don't necessarily mean troop cuts though ,or shouldn't anyway ,the waste and overspending is enormous in the MOD ,this report from the Public Accounts Committee is particularly damming

http://www.parliament.uk/business/co...nce-inventory/

[denphone]

Originally Posted by martyh

I think at the moment though the threat level is very low ,we are not in any danger of invasion and our only military commitments are for other countries .Defense cuts don't necessarily mean troop cuts though ,or shouldn't anyway ,the waste and overspending is enormous in the MOD ,this report from the Public Accounts Committee is particularly damming

http://www.parliament.uk/business/co...nce-inventory/

Yes waste has been a problem for as long as l know and we don't seem to be any nearer to sorting that out.

[Osem]

Wherever the axe falls some, maybe many, people will feel hard done by. To what extent those feelings are justified is a matter of opinion, however, and I reckon those who've worked hard, paid their taxes and been prudent have a right to feel more upset than those who've come to rely on the state to fund their lives for no other reason than it's been made too easy for them to do it. Of course, in the middle, there are those who've fallen upon hard times through no fault of their own and are truly deserving of state assistance and they too are now going to suffer more than they should largely because of that element who've made a conscious decision to live off the state and have been allowed to get away with it for far too long.

I must agree that eradicating the sort of institutionalised wastage and ineptitude displayed by the likes of the MOD ought to come first, however. Whatever happens to the men and women in suits who've cost us so many unnecessary £billions over the decades? They never seem to get sacked and where are the politicians crying out for their heads along with those of the pesky bankers? The public sector unions rather like slating the City fat cats but you never hear them commenting on the abject failure of their own members and the massive cost to society thereof.

I've been reading Private Eye again..So I'm not surprised.The wastage that occurs in all areas of public services in this country usually by one or two at the top of the hierarchy is astounding.

Also how many more integrated IT systems are we going to be implementing through our public services before we finally get one that works and hasn't had to be junked to the tune of millions? Cowboy software companies seem to always get the tender.

A fortune could be saved in procurement alone as it is a massive department compared to many other militarys in the world i believe the israeli department has a huge staff of 500 (sarcasm there) compared to our 20k plus. Also buying off the shelf instead of grandiose projects would also save billions no need to cut manpower levels at all cut the pen pusher's. Actually employ some of the personnel they have just got shot of and listen to their recommendations on kit and fortune saved.

P.s oh and dragging welfare into this when there is so much wastage within the M.O.D is pathetic by phillip hammond sadly i am not surprised by this.