Dr Eufemiano Fuentes In Court Accused Of Running A Doping Ring

[thenry]

A Spanish doctor has appeared in court accused of running one of the world's largest sports doping rings...

m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21227052

footballers suspected to be clients. its hardly surprising tbh. advancements are happening like it or not and anyone would love enhancements given its safe.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by thenry

footballers suspected to be clients. its hardly surprising tbh. advancements are happening like it or not and anyone would love enhancements given its safe.

Depends on who's version of safe you take to be accurate

[thenry]

true. theres talk of Barca players being clients. that would mean the team that beat us in CL final were doping. FIFA/UEFA have steered clear of requesting evidence.

Originally Posted by thenry

true. theres talk of Barca players being clients. that would mean the team that beat us in CL final were doping. FIFA/UEFA have steered clear of requesting evidence.

That is a massive leap to make.

[thenry]

I think we should be awarded the CL and mad Jens Knighted

[mertle]

Unless courts give wada access to his computer names will never be found. Those guilty if found should get lifetime ban from any profesional sport.

I would not be suprised in all honesty he says tennis stars, athletics and boxers also with him.

thenry I am sure if you say barca has skeletons I would not be shocked premier league has widespread too.

There been shadows around topflight football for awhile. No doubt ability gets you so far and fitness programmes and train gets you other marginal gains. I question how much that gains beyond say championship clubs without some sort outside help.

Why are we get young pro players have heart attacks. To me something wrong its like super athletes on steriods at times the game played. We getting rubbish from fifa saying doping does not help improve footballers in games and football the cleanest sport out there.

Let them prove it bring out widespreed testing programme to prove football clean.

the clinic website mainly for cyclist have thread on this investigation. Pretty clued up have been involved trying crack doping from sport. I doubt we would got lance armstrong without the pressure they did.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=13168

I don't think top-flight football will have many, if any, dopers.

First of all the attention surrounding the game is considerably higher than than of professional cycling and the money to carry out drug testing is also there. We're having footballers caught out for taking weight loss medication and other footballers facing bans for missing drug tests. They take it seriously. Additionally most clubs have even more regular drug testing for their own players.

The benefits are also minor, you're not going to get a massive advantage by doping. It's primarily a technical sport, football is not a contest of athleticism to the degree it is in cycling. A relatively weak player can be the best in the world (Messi) whereas this isn't true in cycling.

So even the increased risk of getting caught and the decreased benefits of taking them in the first place, why bother?

---------- Post added at 17:04 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

Originally Posted by mertle

the clinic website mainly for cyclist have thread on this investigation. Pretty clued up have been involved trying crack doping from sport. I doubt we would got lance armstrong without the pressure they did.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=13168

I remember that forum. Those people are nuts. They think everybody is doping if they win. They seem convinced Team Sky, Team GB and Bradley Wiggins all doped. A lot of them seem to be Australians....

[thenry]

oh don't get the flip flops out Damien please.

with regards to football. enhancements are happening but of course its regulated. thing is this guy has supposedly got clients all round sport. will the courts, those fighting the guy decrypt the code names and may be go as far as trying to match up DNA found to people they suspect?

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think top-flight football will have many, if any, dopers.

First of all the attention surrounding the game is considerably higher than than of professional cycling and the money to carry out drug testing is also there. We're having footballers caught out for taking weight loss medication and other footballers facing bans for missing drug tests. They take it seriously. Additionally most clubs have even more regular drug testing for their own players.

The benefits are also minor, you're not going to get a massive advantage by doping. It's primarily a technical sport, football is not a contest of athleticism to the degree it is in cycling. A relatively weak player can be the best in the world (Messi) whereas this isn't true in cycling.

So even the increased risk of getting caught and the decreased benefits of taking them in the first place, why bother?

I understand the technical aspect of the game but dont get the athletism and fitness advantages we seeing.

Its like modern players super fit beyond belief that balk up has in my opinion to have come from some other than pumping iron.

Whether its done by club or individual finding avenues such this who knows.

This doc is the first time doping been linked to football if true. Read in this forum real madrid also and he was arrested in germany during world cup.

Not sure the programme to weed out cheaters in football close to adequate. You talk of clubs individual policy thats fine to catch say recreation violition of drugs. Would club ban a player if they new he had taken something that would benefit his progress.

Remember there been issues over FA warn clubs before swooping to training to check players. I seem to recall a storm where a top player conveniently missed it. It ended up in news.

There different levels of testing are they just testing for recreational drugs or Wada banned substances.

I also believe FIFA yet to sign up to many banned substances which improve performance on grounds they dont improve footballers.

I shocked IOC allowed football to be this lapsed in its anti doping programme.

yes those webbies nuts but they have found to be true in some cases.

I am to be honest skeptical on sky sudden emergance and domination that some who been dopers are involved in backup team. Whether there clean time will tell. How many thought us postal/discovery team was clean.

thenry indeed lets hope they can get evidence not just prove guilt but to disprove those inocently fingered.

He may be complete romancer bigging up involvement. I just hope the later as this will cause massive ripples in those sports.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by mertle

There been shadows around topflight football for awhile. No doubt ability gets you so far and fitness programmes and train gets you other marginal gains. I question how much that gains beyond say championship clubs without some sort outside help.

Why are we get young pro players have heart attacks. To me something wrong its like super athletes on steriods at times the game played. We getting rubbish from fifa saying doping does not help improve footballers in games and football the cleanest sport out there.

I'd be surprised if they did have a widespread testing programme. They'd lose too much.

Think about it. These players are payed hundreds of thousands a week. They are bought and sold form 10s of millions of pounds. These players get that money because they are able to play premiere league football week after week. I'd be shocked if at least some of them were not on some sort of drug to enhance their performance.

In the meantime, the clubs rely on the players being able to produce this performance week in week out. As such, I'd be surprised if they actually have any more than a cursory glance at what the players are taking. It's not in their interest to. If they do, and a player is taking some illegal drug, and they punish or report him, that player may be out for a while. Still, presumably, costing the club money and not bringing any in.

It's like Hollywood in the 40s and 50s. Although they appeared to, the Studios didn't really care that a lot of stars spent a lot of their time off their heads on various drugs as long as those stars performed (in some cases, taking advantage of the energy boost given by certain drugs to star in more films).

While the various authorities will undoubtedly make a lot of noise about checking players, and the various clubs will make a lot of noise supporting them, I'll lay odds that the larger clubs will secretly do as little as possible to co-operate.

[mertle]

Yep stuart its exactly how I see it. Clubs not going to self harm and the bodies drunk on power/money have little drive to tackle issues in the game. PFA have kept quiet too over issues.

Unless we get body prepared to tackle the problem not have big clubs dictating policy we wont clean the game up of cheating.

If this investigation achieves a window of oportunity to tackle problems then great.

barca denying links but interesting what doc was using.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...US-Postal.html

The USADA (US Anti-Doping Agency) indictment sent to Del Moral in June – which he has said he will not challenge – said he had injected cyclists with erythropoietin, a stamina-enhancing substance, and with testosterone. He was also accused of facilitating “blood doping� transfusions and of providing human growth hormone to riders.
It was claimed that he had “regularly fabricated� prescriptions for corticosteroids, such as cortisone, for healthy riders and that he had administered saline and plasma infusions, which are common masking agents.

Sure footballers would benefit from stamina enhancing.

I have known couple ex players who believes the use cortisone by physios crippled there knees. It is banned by Wada.

Like said nobody saying drugs make div 2 player into messi damien. However with the right tools you can make players work harder and faster during training. Which will naturally benefit from players being able to sustain higher tempo's for longer spells during game.

The benefits and pot gold in football makes it more likely doping is there.

Its win at all costs game that sort of situation will always bring out to try cheat to get margin gains. Even if its 10% advantage its worth it. Whether mind games, cheating diving/fowling/trying get player sent off. Using drugs bribery we will get it.

Football not inflamable from human greed.

Originally Posted by mertle

Yep stuart its exactly how I see it. Clubs not going to self harm and the bodies drunk on power/money have little drive to tackle issues in the game. PFA have kept quiet too over issues.

Unless we get body prepared to tackle the problem not have big clubs dictating policy we wont clean the game up of cheating.

Hang on we don't even have any evidence of these doping programs and we're already talking about cleaning it up?

Football is not cycling. There is a lot more attention on it and serious consequences for clubs who are shown not to have done something about it.

Good article here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...ret-footballer

There will be of course isolated incidents of players doping but they can be caught easily, and it's not systematic. That's all you can really ask for. Effective testing and policing.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Damien

Hang on we don't even have any evidence of these doping programs and we're already talking about cleaning it up?

Football is not cycling. There is a lot more attention on it and serious consequences for clubs who are shown not to have done something about it.

Good article here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...ret-footballer

There will be of course isolated incidents of players doping but they can be caught easily, and it's not systematic. That's all you can really ask for. Effective testing and policing.

damien that article awful for endorsement that football clean. Infact player says he been only ever tested twice. If 16 tests could not catch amstrong or others in cycling cheating. How many has been missed by the laughable testing in football.

Again your article only talks about recreational and trying to use the excuse some been caught with these that football clean from PED's.

He bemoans that it would be difficult after 90 mins game to pee in bottle. Sorry that not excuse why we should not test after games. Other sports after endurance have athletes do urine and even blood samples.

Would also think footballers should have biological passport. So things can be referenced that would then mean at least every player tested once to make sure passport is pure.

Cycling has made huge inroads since their introduction. Fact cycling caught more due to the testing not perfect but they used to have same excuse costs, hard to catch our riders cleanest sport living.

Also breaking news in USA its now in baseball and american football.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...inic-ped-lists

If we want fair and level playing field then its natural to test. As the argument its very popular etc in public domian so its clean. American football/baseball is big and cycling popular worldwide sports.

The money in the game is enough to be worried that some not all may take illegal methods to win at all costs mentality.

I love football damien I would love to say its clean but quite honestly I would be shocked if it is.

Originally Posted by mertle

damien that article awful for endorsement that football clean. Infact player says he been only ever tested twice. If 16 tests could not catch amstrong or others in cycling cheating. How many has been missed by the laughable testing in football.

Tested twice after a game. Not ever. They mostly depend on randomised testing because you would have to be pretty stupid to get caught after a game. Armstrong avoided getting caught because he roughly knew when the rests would be and developed the program around that. In fact, football has long taken the approach that would have caught Armstrong.

If we want fair and level playing field then its natural to test. As the argument its very popular etc in public domian so its clean. American football/baseball is big and cycling popular worldwide sports.

We do test.

The money in the game is enough to be worried that some not all may take illegal methods to win at all costs mentality.

I love football damien I would love to say its clean but quite honestly I would be shocked if it is.

I would the shocked if there are doping programmes similar to cycling in top-level football. The benefits aren't as pronounced as football is not primarily a test of physicality even if it helps and the attention is much higher. I cannot imagine a situation where a club routinely dopes, or willingly overlooks it, and it doesn't come out. There probably will be isolated cases of stupid players. Let's not forget Rio Ferdinand got a 8 month ban for simply missing a drugs test although he was proved to be clean. They take this stuff seriously.