Nice One Porsche

[Arthurgray50@blu]

I was absolutely delighted when l heard, the news that motor giant Porsche is taking legal action against Ken Livingstone, with the increase in CC, for there type of car plus large cars on the road, that enter the Cz, he should not be allowed to get away with it, and it is about time these major companies stood up to the bloke, in the Central London area, we have some major companies ie, Harrods, John Lewis, Bentalls, and Hamleys, and if these all stood up to Ken, he would have trouble on his hands, if you think, he is always spending OUR money on silly schemes, instead of improving services, he has also invested a lot of OUR money on the Olympic Village, which has already moved business's and homes out of the area, to make way for the games, remember, when he became mayor, he stated, that the CC charge was ONLY for one area, and that was the West End, at it was £8.00, now it has gone to THREE areas, and cost £10.00 and for large cars now £25.00, and he has now added emission zone, where will he stop, so well done Porsche, hopefully many other large companies will follow suit.

[Stuart]

So, you are happy for people to be able to buy powerful cars, that emit a lot of various pollutants, drive them into Central London, thus adding to the pollution and traffic already there, and effectively ensuring that if their own powerful cars stay in London, they will never be used for their full potential?

I don't agree with a lot Livingstone says (in fact, generally I find him smarmy to the point he is offensive), but I do agree that we need to be persuading people not to drive if it is not necessary.

Make no mistake, Porsche are not doing this for their customers. They are worried that some customers will start to wonder if they really need a new Porsche if they are going to continue to get caned by taxes.

[SMHarman]

Arthur, where do you live?

The emission zone is moot. Unless you drive a 7yr old diesel truck which most regular visitors to the zone do not.

Harrods, John Lewis, Bentalls, and Hamleys are not what I would call the major engines of the central london economy, I would imagine the hotel and tourism industry trump them, as do the banking and financial service companies in the city and the hedge funds and private equity in the west end. Retail I would imagine Debenhams Group and whatever the TopShop / Top Man etc group and Next would be a bigger impact and able to cause a bigger stink.

You complained about the stinky buses and taxis not long ago in the emissions thread but failed to note that both pass the emissions standards he is laying down.

There is a thought that if you can spend 80 big ones on a car then another few quid a day to drive it, and well if you live inside the zone with a 90% discount makes the charge less than the cost of a latte it is no big deal.

[jkat]

you will just have to sell your Porsche Arthur!

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Hi Jkat, l actually drive a roller, l bought it from Dinky toys,(ha.ha), no just to clarify something, fellow members, l don't give a toss, who the company is in London, but someone has to tell Ken Livingstone, that enough is enough, of making money out of us, the companies that we work for, who have to pay these charges to go into London, l used to work for a company, that delivered to the West End area, they worked on a tight budget, but they had four drivers, now that is £40.00 per day, plus parking charges etc, this is what l am talking about, now if you get a parking ticket, that is £80.00.

Ken is always coming out with these crazy schemes, that effect us, the general public, if he doesn't want ANY vehicles in the Central London, then he should come out and say so, But it needs the big shops to come and and say, OUR business is being effected Ken, and enough is enough.

[Matth]

Ken Livingstone had a mandate for the "congestion charge". It is questionable if he has a mandate to re-engineer it as a carbon tax, at least, that will be one of the issues that he must be judged on in the forthcoming election.

Especially in the light of this conversion, the US Embassy's refusal to pay this tax seems fully justified.

Originally Posted by Stuart C

I don't agree with a lot Livingstone says (in fact, generally I find him smarmy to the point he is offensive), but I do agree that we need to be persuading people not to drive if it is not necessary.

There is far better ways of persuading people than dreaming up ways of cashing in on the excuses of climate change.

If someone can afford to own a Porsche, £25 is not going to be a major issue for them. It's another pathetic attempt to rake in cash from the motorist.

Though I do find the fact the Common Wealth games are coming up in a few years and there has been press reports that there isn't enough money in the pot to cater for this, just a bit of a coincidence if you ask me.

In the words of Sir Alan Sugar to the cretin Ken Livingstone.. You're Fired!

[iglu]

Originally Posted by Mick

In the words of Sir Alan Sugar to the cretin Ken Livingstone.. You're Fired!

No, he is not, he will be re-elected mate he is the sure thing....

Red Ken is the best thing that happened to London. He understands London and Londoners love him, despite his shortcomings.

Anyone, for bringing back the pigeons in Trafalgar square?

[Mr_love_monkey]

Originally Posted by iglu

Anyone, for bringing back the pigeons in Trafalgar square?

The guys who sold bird seed?

[lostandconfused]

Surely road tax is higher if you have a car that has higer emissions?
So you will be paying for it twice?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

Surely road tax is higher if you have a car that has higer emissions?
So you will be paying for it twice?

What's new about that? Despite Bliar's claim that 'we have no plans to raise taxes', we all pay more tax now than ever on our incomes, savings and expenditure. We even pay VAT on the duty they levy on stuff like petrol and alcohol.

Originally Posted by iglu

No, he is not, he will be re-elected mate he is the sure thing....

I know quite a few Ex-Londoners who would disagree with you there.

Originally Posted by iglu

Red Ken is the best thing that happened to London. He understands London and Londoners love him, despite his shortcomings.

He understands Londoners?

[keithwalton]

Its not just CO2 that comes out of exhaust pipes lest we forget that in the current CO2 craze.

Porsche engines are actually comparatively clean burners in terms of other emissions compared to there rivals.

I think it was quoted a few years ago that if you drove one of the Porsche's through an urban area because of all the filtration, burning and catalysts the gas coming out of the exhaust pipe was technically cleaner (in terms of amounts of harmful chemicals) than the air that went in.

Also has it not been published recently that the introduction of the congestion charge has had little to no effect on the number of cars entering london because simply the people going there were going for a reason in the first place and that £8 is nothing compared to how much parking is.

Could it be that Porsche are about to take a large stake in VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) where they will have a much bigger market share

[lostandconfused]

The thing that im struggling to usderstand is; If it really is about the environment and not about raising cash. Why doesnt he ban the cars that are in this bracket altogether?

[BBKing]

the news that motor giant Porsche is taking legal action against Ken Livingstone

You're delighted a foreign corporation is threatening to thwart the will of a democratically elected British politician? Interesting...*takes note*. By the way, all four main candidates support keeping the charge, although Boris wants to look at removing it from Kensington, where coincidentally a lot of people vote Tory and a lot of his mates live.

Actually this is something of a press stunt by Porsche, since the £25 proposal is clearly subject to the outcome of the Mayoral election (a point made by his office) and Porsche are not actually taking legal action, merely writing a snotty letter threatening it. I'd like to see their case, which seems to be a) the increase will have a limited effect on CO2 and b) it's going to be bad for our customers and thus (implied) our profits.

There an interesting point here though - if they do win based on what they say they're arguing about (that the change won't have sufficient effect on emissions) does that mean we can all sue the Government for policies that aren't as green as they could be. The Heathrow Third Runway, perhaps, or new road schemes? Gordon Brown's trips to China? The National ID computer? New coal-fired power stations? Zero fuel tax on airlines?

we have some major companies ie, Harrods, John Lewis, Bentalls, and Hamleys,

Harrods is a tourist trap run by a nutter, Hamleys is rather expensive but next to Oxford Circus tube station in an area with near zero parking. Bentalls is in Kingston, miles outside the CC area, with a large car park in a town centre substantially disfigured by new roads. There's also a John Lewis in the same area. I'm not sure what your point is, Arthur, picking stores (evidently near where you live) that were designed back in the car-greedy 1980s to be easily reachable by road, thus adding to traffic and pollution?

That's what we're trying to move away from. For instance, the gigantic Westfield development at Shepherd's Bush will have two new stations and a totally refurbished Tube station sandwiching it (and 4500 parking spaces, but hey, 570 cycle bays. Bluewater has 13,000 car spaces, by the way, and is only slightly larger). It would have had a tram too, which was a 2004 manifesto commitment by Livingstone, but it was killed by the Tory councils along the Uxbridge Road. So much for Green Dave Cameron.

Cars aren't needed in central London, large gas-guzzling ones even less so. The CC has won awards and clearly works in shifting people from car to public transport and making the latter more efficient.