Driving ban question

blackthorn · 11-04-2009, 07:34

I`ve tried googling for an answer to this but I`ve not had much success so I`m hoping someone on here might be able to clarify this for me.
One of my staff at work was off the other day and when he returned to work he told me that 2 days previously he was followed from the local supermarket to his house by the police. He said, that they followed him because he failed to use an indicator at some junction. When they got to his house, they could smell alcohol and breathalysed him, which he failed. (This is what he is telling me btw). I asked him what happened next, he said the police took his car away to the compound. I asked him if he was arrested and he said no because he fully admited to drinking and driving. ( I find that a bit weird ). He appeared in court the next day where he tells me that he has been given a 18month driving ban.
Right I have a couple of problems with this guy now. We all work at an outdoor shopping centre, which is private property. Part of his job is driving a mini road sweeper and a small mule which tows a jetwash. None of these vehicles have license plates or road tax (not needed). He tells me that the police said he was ok to carry on driving these on our site but I am not so sure. My main worry is, that he sweeps the carparks, where the public have access. So what I am asking is, what are the laws on this situation ?
Also, if anyone can tell me if it is normal procedure to take someones car away when stopped for drink driving. I would understand them taking it away if say he was stopped on a road miles from his house but he was at his own house when they done him.

Help!!! · 11-04-2009, 07:46

Its does seem strange, they normally arrest the person and take them to station to test them again on the breathalyzer to get a more accurate reading of how much they where over the limit.

lucy7 · 11-04-2009, 07:57

Sometimes when you get caught, you then tend to embellish the story, I feel he may be making up things.

Set some one else on the job that he does, and give him another task.

Ring the police for clarification on if he is legally allowed to do stuff in the car park.

Dai · 11-04-2009, 08:09

Although he may still be able to drive on private property despite a ban I'd be concerned about your Insurance situation.
If the person concerned managed to injure a member of the public or damage a vehicle the fact that he is a convicted drink-driver would probably not go down well with your insurers.

Raistlin · 11-04-2009, 08:31

Agreed, you need to check with your insurers that they will still provide cover in the event that he has an accident.

j52c · 11-04-2009, 08:52

They don't drive the car away to a compound, they do take you to the police station for another breath test on the big machine.

Kymmy · 11-04-2009, 08:57

If he's stupid enough to drive on a public road drunk then what does he do at work???

Surely as well your public liability insurance for that vehicle would need to know of the conviction especially as he's driving in an area accessable by the public..

Millbrook (GM testing) still requires you to have a licence if you're working in thier testing facility even though you're on totally private ground..

Derek · 11-04-2009, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthorn

I asked him what happened next, he said the police took his car away to the compound.

Possible but very strange if it was parked OK. If he didn't have a full license or no insurance they would have lifted it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthorn

I asked him if he was arrested and he said no because he fully admited to drinking and driving. ( I find that a bit weird ). He appeared in court the next day where he tells me that he has been given a 18month driving ban.

If he failed the roadside breath test he *would* have been arrested. Taken to the office, given a further evidential sample of breath/blood/urine and then charged. After that he might have been kept in until court where an 18 month ban is entirely possible depending of previous convictions and the level of alcohol in his system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthorn

Right I have a couple of problems with this guy now. We all work at an outdoor shopping centre, which is private property. Part of his job is driving a mini road sweeper and a small mule which tows a jetwash. None of these vehicles have license plates or road tax (not needed). He tells me that the police said he was ok to carry on driving these on our site but I am not so sure. My main worry is, that he sweeps the carparks, where the public have access.

Hmmm, this is where it gets a bit messy. If the public have access to the area then its classed as a road and he can't drive a car there when he is disqualified. If the vehicles are not classed as cars and do not require a license to drive them then he should be OK but if a license is required to operate them his is currently revoked.

I'd get the advice of a specialist traffic law lawyer as I wouldn't want to take the risk of getting chopped for causing and permitting someone to drive without license/insurance etc.

Kymmy · 11-04-2009, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by j52c

They don't drive the car away to a compound, they do take you to the police station for another breath test on the big machine.

Yeah I wondered about this one... Even if he said he was guilty they would have still got the two evidenciary breath test readings from a calibrated machine at the police stattion as upto the court hearing he could always change his plea... As for the car even if he parked it in his driveway any insurance/DD/tax/MOT offence these days means they can take the car...

Derek · 11-04-2009, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Yeah I wondered about this one... Even if he said he was guilty they would have still got the two evidenciary breath test readings from a calibrated machine at the police stattion as upto the court hearing he could always change his plea...

There is talk of the roadside machines being accepted as evidential samples (at least up here in Scotland) as they are pretty accurate these days. Far better than the old crystals in a bag. As far as I know that is still at the discussion stage and everyone over at the roadside is carted off for a go on the intoximeter.

WHISTLED · 11-04-2009, 09:06

Having some oexperience (from mate I should add)..

This is what would have had to happen..

Pulled over and failed breath test,
Arrested and taken to the police station, second breath test failed
Charged with being under the influence and bailed to appear before magistrates at a later date (unlikely next day by appointment?!)
Appears before magistrates given points and a 12 month+ ban

Cars would not be impounded if it was at him home as stated unless he was driving without insurance etc.

I suspect this chap may already banned for something and has been caught driving, the police often go to see if a banned driver is driving.

Regarding the sweepersm etc, I dont believe they would require a driving license to operate, they would be covered in standard liability insurance, however it may be in his contract that he needs a driving license

Hom3r · 11-04-2009, 09:08

Would you appear in court the next day?

Surely it would take far longer, plus you would be arrested on the spot, like has just been done on the cop documentry on TV.

WHISTLED · 11-04-2009, 09:08

Took me so long to write Derek posted

Derek · 11-04-2009, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Would you appear in court the next day?

Not sure about England/Wales but in Scotland the options when charged with something are:

Released and a report sent to the PF. You will then be summoned to appear at Court
Released and given a specific day to appear at Court (normally 14-21 days away)
Held in custody until the next court sitting

It all depends of the offence and previous record of the accused. Normally the 2nd option is taking for drunk driving but if the reading is exceptionally high, the driver has previous for traffic offences or is disqualified he'll be kept in till the next lawful day.

AndyCambs · 11-04-2009, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthorn

One of my staff at work was off the other day and when he returned to work he told me that 2 days previously he was followed from the local supermarket to his house by the police. He said, that they followed him because he failed to use an indicator at some junction. When they got to his house, they could smell alcohol and breathalysed him, which he failed. .

Quite possibly. The road-side test is an indication as to the level of intoxication, but can't be taken as evidence. The intoximeter at the police station will then be used and the suspect gives two samples, both of which are analysed. The lower of the two readings is then used as evidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthorn

I asked him what happened next, he said the police took his car away to the compound. I asked him if he was arrested and he said no because he fully admited to drinking and driving. ( I find that a bit weird ). He appeared in court the next day where he tells me that he has been given a 18month driving ban.

He'd have to be arrested in order to be detained and taken to the station. The car would only be removed to the compound if there were other circumstances - such as not insured to drive it. This was included I think under section 165 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. For driving whilst under the influence, then the suspect would be released on bail. Part of the bail conditions are always that you don't re-offend, which means if you are caught a second time driving before you licence is revoked, then you would be refused bail and put straight before the court.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthorn

Right I have a couple of problems with this guy now. We all work at an outdoor shopping centre, which is private property. Part of his job is driving a mini road sweeper and a small mule which tows a jetwash. None of these vehicles have license plates or road tax (not needed). He tells me that the police said he was ok to carry on driving these on our site but I am not so sure. My main worry is, that he sweeps the carparks, where the public have access. So what I am asking is, what are the laws on this situation ?

Category K on the driving licence covers "Mowing machine or vehicle controlled by a pedestrian". This includes electrically propelled hand-held rubbish carts. (My local authority fell foul of this some years ago and the cart had to have an L-plate affixed to it.)
If the licence has been revoked by the court - then it will be a complete ban - it's not conditional or partial.

It's also important to note that the police don't ban you. Theoretically, once sober, you can lawfully drive your car until the court seize your licence and revoke it. This is after the court case - which happens even if you plead guilty by post. The penalty for drink driving is an obligatory ban (see here) unless there are some pretty good reasons why a ban should not be imposed. In any case, there would also be points added to the licence which would probably be sufficient to ban under the totting-up procedure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthorn

Also, if anyone can tell me if it is normal procedure to take someones car away when stopped for drink driving. I would understand them taking it away if say he was stopped on a road miles from his house but he was at his own house when they done him.

As above - the only reason a car would be taken away generally,

if there is no insurance for the person to drive the car
if it's been used in the commission of a crime (and seized under the proceeds of crime act)