Are tired pilots compromising our safety?

Originally Posted by BBC News

Airline safety is being compromised by pilot fatigue, BBC News has found.

Some 32 UK-based pilots said they had flown while unfit. Some blamed the situation on the intensity of work and managers ignoring their concerns.

A separate survey by pilots' union Balpa suggests 81% believe fatigue had affected performance; while 63% are flying more hours than five years ago.

<snip>

The pilots spoke anonymously for fear of losing their jobs.

One said: "I have fallen asleep unintentionally in the air where you close your eyes for a second and realise that 10 minutes have passed."

Following the BBC's inquiries, the UK's largest pilots' union, the British Air Line Pilots' Association, questioned 534 of its members.

In the UK we have some of the most regulated pilot flying hours and duty hours in the world

Roger Wiltshire, BATA

Some 76% said their response times had been affected by fatigue, 72% said there had been an impact on decision-making skills and 41% they would refuse to fly if fatigued.

But 12% said they would not feel able to refuse duties even if exhausted, while a further 33% said they would refuse - but feared disciplinary action.

Overall, some 79% told Balpa the public should be concerned about fatigue.

This is particulary worrying - should we - the travelling public be concerned about this? Especially when you read further into the news item that it says:

Originally Posted by BBC News

The BBC has also learned of an incident on a flight to Europe.

The captain told his co-pilot he was exhausted, who suggested he "take five minutes kip - I'll take it from here".

As the captain rested his eyes the aircraft - on autopilot - began to turn, putting it on a collision course with another passenger plane.

Air Traffic Control radioed an urgent warning.

Realising there was no response the captain looked across to see his co-pilot asleep.

Corrective action was taken to avert danger. But in the incident report the pilot failed to mention that his colleague was asleep.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6236810.stm

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

Not as much as poisoned pilots are.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...=OTC-Autonolnk

Although this link is old, it was reported in the press again this weekend

[Xaccers]

This is why, whenever possible (ok, just the once) I let Iron Maiden's Bruce Dickenson fly the plane I'm on.

[punky]

I find it a odd that a pilot fell asleep for 10 mins and the co-pilot/captain/2nd officer didn't notice?

[NitroNutter]

That is some number if 45% of Pilots which is suposed to be a good employment I allways thought with reasonable pay live in fear of disciplinary action, whats that say for the rest of the country, there must be in excess of 60% of the population working daily and each day are in some fear of disciplinary action if they dont attain certain figures many of which is unrealistic without breaking laws or performing under major duress to attain unreasonable expectations. Way to go society, lets face it corporate profits are far more important than life, and people wonder why theres so many on the sick.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Gavin

I find it a odd that a pilot fell asleep for 10 mins and the co-pilot/captain/2nd officer didn't notice?

Might have done and decided if the Pilot's fallen asleep, he obviously needs it.
Better to have a sleeping pilot who then is awake and alert later, than a sleepy pilot throughout the flight.
Just a thought.

[NitroNutter]

Hmm you can see where chinese whispers comes from cant you ? Unless of course I too am misreading it.

The co-piltot told the captain to catch some shut eye he can take over for a while as the captain was exhausted, which he did so, the captain awoke because of becoming aware no-one was responding to air traffic control to find the co-pilot had also dropped of for a few etxraZZZzzzzz. Dnnt really see what there is to be confused over, the cabin was asleep, both of them, it was lucky the plane did not take a premature landing.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Might have done and decided if the Pilot's fallen asleep, he obviously needs it.
Better to have a sleeping pilot who then is awake and alert later, than a sleepy pilot throughout the flight.
Just a thought.

Ideally though, at least one should be awake to take control if the Autopilot fouls up (and they do foul up).

[Gareth]

although the vast majority of cases where autopilot has failed are (or at least were 10 years ago, when I wrote my dissertation) still caused by human error, e.g. miscalculating flight paths or not taking hills into consideration, etc...

[Xaccers]

Sorry, I thought Gavin was referring to the one mentioned in the first quote, who said "I have fallen asleep unintentionally in the air where you close your eyes for a second and realise that 10 minutes have passed." rather than the second one where 10 minutes weren't mentioned, and it had obviously been agreed between the two pilots (just not for the co-pilot to sleep too!).

[Pierre]

I find this odd, as planes can now take off and land without the the pilot touching the controls.

There are two pilots, in much the same way as on long distance bus journeys there are two drivers - so why aren't one of the pilots sleeping for part of the journey??

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I find this odd, as planes can now take off and land without the the pilot touching the controls.

There are two pilots, in much the same way as on long distance bus journeys there are two drivers - so why aren't one of the pilots sleeping for part of the journey??

Other than at times of risk such as take-offs and landings, I can't see why it's not policy on flights of a certain length for one pilot to sleep other than security.
Remember the Egyptian flight that crashed while the co-pilot was sleeping?
There was a suggestion that it was suicide.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I find this odd, as planes can now take off and land without the the pilot touching the controls.

There may be impending dangers that require manual input though, such as two planes that cross the same space and altitude, which is becoming a more common occurrence as our skies get busier. Unfortunately, a collision of this nature actually happened several years ago (Not because pilots were sleeping), as this short youtube clip shows. [Not for the faint hearted]

An autopilot system will not correct itself in such circumstances, hence the need for manual intervention.

Originally Posted by Mick

Are tired pilots compromising our safety?

Do tired truck drivers compromise our safety when were heading down the A45....

Short answer.. yes...

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Mick

There may be impending dangers that require manual input though, such as two planes that cross the same space and altitude, which is becoming a more common occurrence as our skies get busier. Unfortunately, a collision of this nature actually happened several years ago (Not because pilots were sleeping), as this short youtube clip shows. [Not for the faint hearted]

An autopilot system will not correct itself in such circumstances, hence the need for manual intervention.

The Russians had crash avoidance radar which if on autopilot would have saved them.
Unfortunately, the radar said they should go up, but the overworked and now murdered controller told them to go down.