still racist

[jkat]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200706...s-2d5f290.html

Black people are six times more likely to be subjected to stop-and-search operations than other ethnic groups and nearly twice as likely to enter the CJS as a result, the Home Affairs Committee found.

Estimates predict that three-quarters of the young black male population will soon be on the DNA database as a consequence of disproportionate arrest rates, the report said.

this has to stop.

Just cuz they are more likely to stop and search does not mean imo they are being treated racially. In some areas of the country there are gangs solely made up by " please insert correct term as I do not know what to say as it may be construed as offensive so ill just let others decide the PC term" Maybe in areas of high crime where these gangs are maybe these are influencing the figures? Ive seen youths of all colours id stop and search if I was old bill purely on how they look act and hang round. There is a gang culture here and if you see from the news a lot of those involved fall into the "insert correct term again" category

[Pia]

Oh please

Soon they'll be letting black criminals get away with it in case they're seen as racist....

[Xaccers]

To determin any racism behind it, they need to investigate what proportion of people stopped are then arrested, and how many of those arrested are actually charged and end up in court.
If the majority of those arrested end up in court, then no it's not racist, it's catching criminals.
If a larger proportion of non-blacks arrested end up in court, and only a small proportion of blacks arrested end up in court, then it would suggest something is wrong, as it means more innocent black people are being arrested.
Course if they're stopping more people of one ethnic group, then they'll find more dodgy people to arrest, however, is that a bad thing?
It's well known that black kids in general do worse at schools, similarly it's well know that poor kids in general do worse at schools, and the two are often linked.
Therefore you could gain statistics showing that the police stop more poor people than reasonably comfortable people.
Looking at the prison population though, the majority by a long way are still white.
The problem with reports or ineffective action on these reports is that your average decent bobby who's not racist but stops people because alarm bells ring, may now be over cautious of stopping black people for fear of appearing racist, even if alarm bells go off.

[Russ]

I wonder if it's geographical. In areas with a higher black population, surely the number of searches will rise proportionally.

[superbiatch]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I wonder if it's geographical. In areas with a higher black population, surely the number of searches will rise proportionally.

I have to agree with this, given the amount of black people in my area, there will be very few black people being searched - are we getting a true picture?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

To determin any racism behind it, they need to investigate what proportion of people stopped are then arrested, and how many of those arrested are actually charged and end up in court.
If the majority of those arrested end up in court, then no it's not racist, it's catching criminals.
If a larger proportion of non-blacks arrested end up in court, and only a small proportion of blacks arrested end up in court, then it would suggest something is wrong, as it means more innocent black people are being arrested.
Course if they're stopping more people of one ethnic group, then they'll find more dodgy people to arrest, however, is that a bad thing?
It's well known that black kids in general do worse at schools, similarly it's well know that poor kids in general do worse at schools, and the two are often linked.
Therefore you could gain statistics showing that the police stop more poor people than reasonably comfortable people.
Looking at the prison population though, the majority by a long way are still white.
The problem with reports or ineffective action on these reports is that your average decent bobby who's not racist but stops people because alarm bells ring, may now be over cautious of stopping black people for fear of appearing racist, even if alarm bells go off.

what about those who are stopped who have been arrested in the past or have been suspects in crime or are known associates of other criminals? Just cuz a search does not result in arrest or charge does not mean the person does not merit a search now and then

---------- Post added at 10:15 ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 ----------

Originally Posted by superbiatch

I have to agree with this, given the amount of black people in my area, there will be very few black people being searched - are we getting a true picture?

course we are not. I personally feel we never do when race is concerned. Its always perverted to make figures look like the poor "insert politically correct term" are being persecuted when they aint at all


I mean no offence with my unwillingness to express any terminology when it comes to race. I serious do not know what term to use as in the wrong context it could be made to look like im rascist its happened here before

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

what about those who are stopped who have been arrested in the past or have been suspects in crime or are known associates of other criminals? Just cuz a search does not result in arrest or charge does not mean the person does not merit a search now and then

Exactly.
Hence why I said about those arrested ending up in court.
If the police have a valid reason for stopping and searching someone, then they should.
If there is a disproportionate number of blacks being arrested and then released without charge (ie shouldn't have been arrested in the first place) compared with other groups, then something is wrong.

Course if Joe Bloggs has a history of crime, but isn't doing anything to warrent a stop and search, then the police shouldn't waste their time stopping and searching him.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Exactly.
Hence why I said about those arrested ending up in court.
If the police have a valid reason for stopping and searching someone, then they should.
If there is a disproportionate number of blacks being arrested and then released without charge (ie shouldn't have been arrested in the first place) compared with other groups, then something is wrong.

Course if Joe Bloggs has a history of crime, but isn't doing anything to warrent a stop and search, then the police shouldn't waste their time stopping and searching him.

if Joe bloggs has a history of violent crime and carrying weapons then searching this guy isnt a waste of time imo whether he looks like he is upto something or not

Also not everyone arrested ends up in court even if they are guilty of a crime what about cautions? what about giving evidence grassing? they would be arrested but not in court does not mean they shouldnt have been pulled

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

if Joe bloggs has a history of violent crime and carrying weapons then searching this guy isnt a waste of time imo whether he looks like he is upto something or not

Also not everyone arrested ends up in court even if they are guilty of a crime what about cautions? what about giving evidence grassing? they would be arrested but not in court does not mean they shouldnt have been pulled

Sorry, I thought it was obvious that I was talking about the difference between those arrested without reason, and those validly arrested. I'll try to make myself more clear next time.

If Joe Bloggs is out shopping, or wearing a suit on his way to a funeral, or obviously not carrying anything, you think he should have his and the police's time wasted for stopping him just because he's Joe Bloggs?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Pia

Oh please

Soon they'll be letting black criminals get away with it in case they're seen as racist....

Or reformed gang members will appear on late night radio shows blaming their ner' do well ways on not having enough black role models, rather than his own laziness and greed, the presenter agrees with him and say's the media takes no notice of successful black people, pointing out no black barristers or judges appearing on tv, well perhaps I am watching the wrong shows but I can't remember the last time I saw any judges on tv at all, except Rumpole perhaps

[punky]

I think people will suprised to note that its actually as a result of intelligence lead policing, than racism.

For example. Someone is mugged. They get a description of a young black man with a black jacket. Police are going to stop and search anyone fitting that description, looking for her possessions.

Because descriptions are typically vague, it does hit ethnic groups harder, as they are less distinguishing features (for example, white people normally have variying hair colours, so reduces the amount of people that would be needed to stop and search).

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Or reformed gang members will appear on late night radio shows blaming their ner' do well ways on not having enough black role models, rather than his own laziness and greed, the presenter agrees with him and say's the media takes no notice of successful black people, pointing out no black barristers or judges appearing on tv, well perhaps I am watching the wrong shows but I can't remember the last time I saw any judges on tv at all, except Rumpole perhaps

And when a successful black man (Bill Crosby) speaks out and says that these days the only thing stopping young blacks being successful is themselves, wasting time on gangs and crime rather than getting an education and a decent job, he's shouted down and called a traitor.

[jkat]

wow looks like i was wrong reading some of the posts, so your saying blacks commit more crime than whites then? or are u saying "i'm not racist but"?

http://193.113.211.175/duty/duty_facts.html

Ethnic minorities are often the most deprived in our society. They are proportionately more likely to live in the most deprived areas, in unpopular, overcrowded housing. They are more likely to be poor and unemployed, regardless of age, sex, qualifications and place of residence.

The services most poorly rated for recognising the different needs of ethnic minorities include the police, immigration services, the courts and local councils, especially council housing. One in eight ethnic minority people reported discrimination at a job interview.

African Caribbean pupils are over four to six times more likely to be excluded than white pupils, although they are no more likely to truant than others. Many of those excluded are of higher or average ability although the schools see them as underachieving.

An African Caribbean graduate is more than twice as likely to be unemployed as a white person with A-levels. African men with degrees are seven times more likely to be unemployed than white male graduates.

no its racism, no buts.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Sorry, I thought it was obvious that I was talking about the difference between those arrested without reason, and those validly arrested. I'll try to make myself more clear next time.

If Joe Bloggs is out shopping, or wearing a suit on his way to a funeral, or obviously not carrying anything, you think he should have his and the police's time wasted for stopping him just because he's Joe Bloggs?

How can anyone obviously appear to not be carrying anything? Ive seen violence at funerals before.Knives can be small and hidden anywhere

You were clear but its how do you get to know someone is arrested without reason? They come out and say they nicked me for nothing mate? could be bull?

IMO if someone is a known violent criminal hassle him at every oppurtunity whether he is black white or whatever. Make life as difficult for him/her as possible