Chip and Pin Fraud

[nffc]

Just seen Tonight with Trevor McDonald about Chip and PIN fraud.

Pretty harrowing, the magnetic strip is pretty vulnerable :o and the system's nowhere near as safe as common perception. And the woman on there from the banking association or whatever it was, was so f*cking naive it was untrue.

Anyone else see it / have an opinion about it?

[paulyoung666]

no system is going to 100% safe to be fair , where there is technology , someone will crack it

[Chimaera]

Well we had it on in the background but didn't really watch it - but I did hear the bit where they said that now the banks will blame any fraudulent use of the card on the card owner, as they seem to think the 'chip and pin' system is foolproof! And yet they had several customers on the programme whose card details had been used fraudulently.
It seems we will still need to be vigilant!

[the_neurotic_cat]

hang on ... whats that about the magnetic strip ? ... i thought that was being replaced by the chip! Sorry I missed the show.

[Chimaera]

Originally Posted by the_neurotic_cat

hang on ... whats that about the magnetic strip ? ... i thought that was being replaced by the chip! Sorry I missed the show.

I think they still form an integral part of the card - and of course there's always internet fraud for those pc users who won't be bothered to protect their pc's!
One woman even gave out all her security details over the phone to someone who said they were from the bank! No amount of security measures will ever protect some members of the public I think!

[the_neurotic_cat]

aahhhhhhh .... i see. yeah, remote transactions are inherently insecure. all that can be done is to make it as difficult as possible for newbie fraudsters. then of coarse theres always the moron thay actually writes his PIN on his card (yes it happens) !!!!

[allanprg]

Yes I saw the program. And yes while the magnetic strip stays on the back of credit/debit cards,the criminal will always be able to circumvent the chip.
You can see how easy it was with the right equipment. Take away the magnetic strip and make all cards chip read only and also the shop readers chip read only.Then it would be a lot safer. But that is years away. Until that time you have to be vigilant. I always cover the shop chip readers with my hand as I put in my code. And don't give your security info to anyone on the phone. Banks never ask for this info at all. Especially on the phone.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by allanprg

Yes I saw the program. And yes while the magnetic strip stays on the back of credit/debit cards,the criminal will always be able to circumvent the chip.
You can see how easy it was with the right equipment. Take away the magnetic strip and make all cards chip read only and also the shop readers chip read only.Then it would be a lot safer. But that is years away. Until that time you have to be vigilant. I always cover the shop chip readers with my hand as I put in my code. And don't give your security info to anyone on the phone. Banks never ask for this info at all. Especially on the phone.

I do (or my wallet, coat, or anything I have).

How naive was that banking woman though?

[daz300]

i have just been shoping and no shop is doing chip and pin they all are asking you to put you name down like back in the old days . i did ask why and all i got wos " do not ask you would never use your card if you did " any one know an thing about it ??

[Robert Atkins]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

no system is going to 100% safe to be fair , where there is technology , someone will crack it

The RSA encryption method is 100% secure, ...well one can crack it but it will take 100 years or so to get the answer (the decoding time depends on the number of bits used for the encryption)

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Robert Atkins

The RSA encryption method is 100% secure, ...well one can crack it but it will take 100 years or so to get the answer (the decoding time depends on the number of bits used for the encryption)

How can it be secure if they've already cracked it?

[Robert Atkins]

Originally Posted by daz300

i have just been shoping and no shop is doing chip and pin they all are asking you to put you name down like back in the old days . i did ask why and all i got wos " do not ask you would never use your card if you did " any one know an thing about it ??

2 out of 3 transacttions can be done with Chip and Pin. If retailers do not upgrade, they will will have to pick up all fraud costs (from early next year...)

see http://www.chipandpin.co.uk/reflib/d...ardholders.pdf
__________________

Originally Posted by nffc

How can it be secure if they've already cracked it?

Suppose that you encrypt your pin with RSA and you put the encrypted version on the web.

The faster computer or supercomputer or cluster of computers will take over 100 years to crack it (128 bit encryption). So in 100 years everyone will have your pin. Do you care if this happens?

In fact 200 digit encryption requires billion years to crack

[allanprg]

And don't forget you can change your pin anytime. Usually by going to a cash machine or by phoning the bank to send you another one.If you go to a cash machine, an indoor one preferably, you can choose which pin you want.

[Matth]

There was another program, where the "hacker" read the stripe from a "chip and pin" card, used a program to reset the "chip & pin" bit and then wrote it to the stripe on another plain card.

Card + pin (no chip) worked perfectly.

The chip itself, is a whole new ballgame for security, but at the moment, it can be 100% BYPASSED!

Originally Posted by Robert Atkins

The faster computer or supercomputer or cluster of computers will take over 100 years to crack it (128 bit encryption). So in 100 years everyone will have your pin. Do you care if this happens?

In fact 200 digit encryption requires billion years to crack

1) At present.

2) It's much easier to simply "shoulder surf" someone's number and then steal their card when they leave the shop.