Caller Line Identity - where is it ?

RamJet · 29-06-2004, 21:13

Hi

just purchased a pair of high-end Panasonic telephones with CLI and SMS

rang customer services to enable and told NOT yes NOT available in Brighton/Worthing area

I've been a customer for over 10 years - what's going on ???

CLI is a basic telephone service

Can't they be bothered to turn it on ?

When I call number my number shows up on their CLI so the equipment is there ???

A very grumpy RJ

**Paul** · 29-06-2004, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamJet

Hi

just purchased a pair of high-end Panasonic telephones with CLI and SMS

rang customer services to enable and told NOT yes NOT available in Brighton/Worthing area

I've been a customer for over 10 years - what's going on ???

CLI is a basic telephone service

Can't they be bothered to turn it on ?

When I call number my number shows up on their CLI so the equipment is there ???

A very grumpy RJ

How long you have been a customer is not really a factor, and CLI is not a basic service, most exchanges have not had it more than a few years, if that. They are hardly likely to not offer it just because they can't be bothered to turn it on.

The fact that others see your number is again not really relevant - it requires the right equipment on your line (at the exchange) to provide you with CLI. Your number being displayed elsewhere is not connected to this.

mmm · 29-06-2004, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pem

How long you have been a customer is not really a factor, and CLI is not a basic service, most exchanges have not had it more than a few years, if that. They are hardly likely to not offer it just because they can't be bothered to turn it on.
....

Ahem... haven't BT had 100% CLI for yonks?

All the ntl inherited kit must be capable, they just can't be fagged to invest in the firmware, billing and management systems to switch it on - purely commercial not technical decisions.

quadplay · 30-06-2004, 00:13

No, wrong, sorry. All the billing/management systems are CLI capable. Equipment has to be physically installed at the switch for Caller Display to be enabled on lines in a region. Many areas have this capability now (in fact, the Celtic regions were upgraded recently), however there are still some areas (both on the ntl network and even one or two exchanges on the BT network) where CLI is not available. It's not just a case of not switching it on - that would be stupid - it's just not physically possible without the equipment being installed/upgraded. This is not an inexpensive undertaking.

**Paul** · 30-06-2004, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmm

Ahem... haven't BT had 100% CLI for yonks?

All the ntl inherited kit must be capable, they just can't be fagged to invest in the firmware, billing and management systems to switch it on - purely commercial not technical decisions.

Um, no.

Like I said, but you missed from your quote - "it requires the right equipment on your line (at the exchange) to provide you with CLI". Some NTL exchanges (and some BT exchanges) do not have this equipment installed. Since the makers of this equipment do not give it away, there is an upgrade cost to ntl/bt.

Pritch · 30-06-2004, 00:59

Just to expand on what Jimbo and Pem have said, this is a matter of investment in equipment, except, whereas BT can get away with installing at the exchange site, the investment by NTL has to take place at every Mux cabinet, of which there are many thousands, as the equipment has to be able to send the signalling down the copper going to the house.

Whilst the BT network has copper right from the exchange to the subscriber, the NTL network has fibre running most of the distance, so these upgrades can't happen centrally with minimal investment.

bob_builder · 30-06-2004, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmm

Ahem... haven't BT had 100% CLI for yonks?

All the ntl inherited kit must be capable, they just can't be fagged to invest in the firmware, billing and management systems to switch it on - purely commercial not technical decisions.

The NTL inherited kit is exactly the problem. When BT installed their network they used all the same equipment (economies of scale) but NTL did not install their network, tens of different, independant companies did and they used whatever equipment suited them best. So some areas have CLI, others do not and some have it only partially.

orangebird · 30-06-2004, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamJet

Hi

just purchased a pair of high-end Panasonic telephones with CLI and SMS

rang customer services to enable and told NOT yes NOT available in Brighton/Worthing area

I've been a customer for over 10 years - what's going on ???

CLI is a basic telephone service

Can't they be bothered to turn it on ?

When I call number my number shows up on their CLI so the equipment is there ???

A very grumpy RJ

RJ, if you pm me your full postcode, I'll confirm whether or not you can get clid.

mmm · 01-07-2004, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbo

No, wrong, sorry. All the billing/management systems are CLI capable. Equipment has to be physically installed at the switch for Caller Display to be enabled on lines in a region. Many areas have this capability now (in fact, the Celtic regions were upgraded recently), however there are still some areas (both on the ntl network and even one or two exchanges on the BT network) where CLI is not available. It's not just a case of not switching it on - that would be stupid - it's just not physically possible without the equipment being installed/upgraded. This is not an inexpensive undertaking.

It was reported on these boards that most equipment in the celtic region was capable but because it wasn't 100% it was not switched on at all. I understand that a big cost is in the project engineering/ surveying to decide what has to be changed - it has just never been seen as high priority with ntl - which I believe is a big mistake. Because ntl have patchy coverage and they seem incapable of publishing a definitive list they cannot actively market it. Sure its going to cost, but thats business! How much is it costing ntl not to offer a full telephone service?

I am a complete convert to CLI (with ntl in my area) and if I moved I would not consider a supplier that didn't offer it (especially as my phones now support it).

CLI is also credited with solving hoax an malicious call problems.

I can't find a link re BT coverage of CLI but BT claims to have been fully digital since 1998 - I'm sure caller display and star services are now universal?

RamJet · 11-07-2004, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pritch

Just to expand on what Jimbo and Pem have said, this is a matter of investment in equipment, except, whereas BT can get away with installing at the exchange site, the investment by NTL has to take place at every Mux cabinet, of which there are many thousands, as the equipment has to be able to send the signalling down the copper going to the house.

Whilst the BT network has copper right from the exchange to the subscriber, the NTL network has fibre running most of the distance, so these upgrades can't happen centrally with minimal investment.

1. So this means that when I made my decision to go for the Nynex/NTL PHONE service *BASED ON THE IDEA* that the co-axial cable was the coming thing and would support lots of extra services this was false as it appears that ONLY by going back to BT with it's 'old fashioned' copper service can I get CLI and other Basic Phone Services

2. We've only had Broadband here in Brighton/Worthing for 18 months ago - Surely they had to make a SUBSTANTIAL investment in upgrading all the equipment the - incl at the MUX Cabs >> WHY DID THEY NOT ADD CLI Then ??????

3. If others can 'see ' my number showing up surely there must be some CLI equipment at thge MUX cab exchange - surely if it there it can be used the other way round so I can see C|LI numbers showing up ???

A Not Very Happy Customer !

Ramjet

SMHarman · 12-07-2004, 13:45

You don't just have a copper coax coming to the house, you have a copper twisted pair also. This supports the telephone, just like BTs copper pair for a telephone. The coax is for BB and DTV only.

I guess BB investment is seen as the must do. Not offering a BB service is considered a greater importance than not offering CLI on a phone service.

poolking · 12-07-2004, 13:49

orangebird could you check mine as well?

I'll PM you once you say its ok to do so.

orangebird · 12-07-2004, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by poolking

orangebird could you check mine as well?

I'll PM you once you say its ok to do so.

That's fine, pm me your full postcode and I'll check for you.

Graham F · 12-07-2004, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by poolking

orangebird could you check mine as well?

I'll PM you once you say its ok to do so.

Poolking the whole of stafford can get it

mmm · 12-07-2004, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamJet

...

3. If others can 'see ' my number showing up surely there must be some CLI equipment at thge MUX cab exchange - surely if it there it can be used the other way round so I can see C|LI numbers showing up ???
...

There is no link, your phone calls are digital from the CAB onwards, the 'exchange' higher up in the chain passes on the original caller id.

The local box has to understand how to send the CLI information (it is a version of simple modem signals) when ringing your phone.

Some-one in ntl marketting clearly doesn't understand the importance of this so it is just not a priority. Perhaps they are right - the take-up of Caller display doesn't justify the investment? I really don't think they know how much it would cost because they haven't surveyed all the kit that is in use.