Osborne looking to reduce welfare by further £10bn by 2016

[mertle]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ma...?newsfeed=true

Well what a suprise he expects welfare to rise sharply so how many he expecting to be dumped on the scrapheap, if he expects it to rise sharply.

He just given those fat cats nice little earner. All which laugh the beaches tonight celebrating how gullable the coalition been. Absolute no incentiveto stop cheating taxation. I cerntainly will not be suprised they just carry on . Osbourne stupid naively thinks his 45% makes them turn all angelic cough up or invest, they will invest alright nearest offshore bank. Now they see wimp they will push for lower taxes by still not paying taxes.

Wait he got plan he now plans to kick living daylights no doubt those poor sods been made unemployed, more flogging disabled, flogging of poor low paid, then kick few pensioners just good measure.

Does this mean he has absolute no faith his measures will turn us around. It sounds it like clear as bell.

How the hell does expect people to live grovel on the hands knees kiss backside to be grateful of his porridge he provides. If they ask please sir can I have little bit more, kicks them and beats them.

What calous spitefil I could really swear here he is. Crikey has ebeniza Scrooge come alive he would make charles dickens proud at how re-inacting hi character. Well lets hop Scrooge osbourne see the 3 ghost christmas learns his haunted futrue become more generous to those he spitefully hurt very hard.

What society this country come to where rich let off and the lower struggling been beaten to inch of the life by calous coalition government.

[Derek]

Conservative voter then are we?

It's pretty much accepted if high tax levels are reduced then high earners won't try so hard to legally avoid tax through loopholes.

[Taf]

But would this be true too?

It's pretty much accepted if high tobacco tax levels are reduced then smokers won't try so hard to legally avoid tax through personally importing from abroad or illegally through smuggling.

[Taf]

NHS at number 5 in the world!!!

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Derek

Conservative voter then are we?

It's pretty much accepted if high tax levels are reduced then high earners won't try so hard to legally avoid tax through loopholes.

Channel 4 put smoke on this that there absolute no evidence it will work no evidence 50% tax was that damaging as HMRC cant check due to the multitude way they pay themselves.

Do you honestly think they will be come all angelic on 5% I dont. They no seen the government yellow will continue to reduce tax further.

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

If you need to make savings then it's common sense to look at the big budget items first: Health, welfare and pensions. These three make up 51% of the entire government expenditure and education is another 12%. Most other areas pale into insignificance by comparision.

Public expenditure figures

Well if like to put it that way then why they sweetners for the rich.

Pot and Kettle. If they not thrown so many to the wolves we would not be in the mess with welfare increase.

If we not gone out done some stupid wars we might had more money in pocket to ofset issues at home. That another thing wasting large chunks on oversees aid includes giving india 1bn they quite literally said they did'nt want. Which would meant less need hurt. I still dont see how trying get blood out stone hurting the wrong people going to recover the country.

Said it again say million times money in the pockets those who will be grateful go out spend it not bank it will turn the economy. Get economy ticking if we make sure the companies who can afford to increase staff more money gets into the system to make the country recover.

More taxes to govenment would me less harm we could drive the debt down as the country people spend. Not rocket science more harm means less disposable cash country dies on its feet.

Its downward spiral of self harm. Take 10bn out of the economy what do you think will happen as companies see less sales. They will cut jobs too result its self harm measure. Because thats how you can look at it.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

A tax change that only makes £100m difference at the most compared with big increases on property transfer taxes (7% of property value), the removal of tax fiddles on property (Company property now at 15%), the closing of more tax loop holes, a cap on tax avoidance in monetary terms and a presumption that there will be a minimum tax for the rich to pay irrespective of ANY tax avoidance schemes. I don't think that looks very sweet to me. (And no I'm not a higher rate tax payer)

It's so simplistic to look at the headline tax rate without actually looking at what it really means but it plays well to the left wing despite the detractors conveiniently forgetting that they themselves stated that it would only be temporary for as long as it actually raised money.

Its great lopeholes getting shut that we can thank finally MP's seeing the redicolous trash which been going on for years. Who ever in power ignored to get on the gravy train of backhanders by big business in party funding. No doubt to make sure they play ball. It still do not see why the bitter sweet pill when everyone else gets pain pain more pain.

It still gives large impression look after those who got alot money. Sorry did not want give impression your one these.

Property one will still get fiddled they can get around this with gifting money dropping the price below the threshold of 2m.

My mum very angry she losing money as pensioner despite smirky hitler cameron try to fool them about twaddle they wont lose out. She was on £145 with pension credit so loses out £5 a week with rent rebate reductions coming bills going up not down how the hell can pensioner survive.

Talk about ripping of the lowest who cant fight back.

The papers nicknamed osbourne sheriff of nottingham robbing the poor to give to the rich. They not wrong.

Now not saying they should left welfare alone but they should not blamed it for the mess. Workfare is masked slave labour. Welfare needed slimling and revamped not butchered. Its the safety net for losing job, being sick and being disabled its everyone right for that help who falls into this.

Yes there fraud but surely its investigation and courts to deal with it not move the goalpost kick genuine of disibility which they rightly deserve.

Equally its wrong to attack unemployed workshy. use messures and tricckery to make people lose it there plenty horrors out there whats going off. Then again is it such biggie some diside to stick at that level afterall I been there it aint the sweet cheeks coalition makes it out.

Those who think its a sinch and money spinner to working live in lala land never been there long term. Especially if run by the rules try look for job out that pittance you get dont do odd jobs for cash in hand. Stick to the rules you will see it not easy not reward as people think. Now not saying all workers above water either depends on lifestyle car ?, Booze?, Fags?, Go Out?, indebt to loans?. You can be equally in struggles but how much cash you got left all down to lifestyles and choices. Some qualify for that little help tax credit some dont get the help.

Lower income workers getting shafted too.

We saw news the pittance minimum wage increase that was just slap in the face to those facing tax credit reductions.

You see big picture the pain all at the wrong scale.

Yet all this money which will get removed from the economy going to hurt the very businesses that many work for. Fully expect more job losses beckon. Ok the tax shift might ofset little but doubt it will be enough to prevent coming months hurting the economy.

[Chrysalis]

well lets put some examples in.

osborne said the top rate of tax wasnt worth increasing as it was a pittance, yet he has decided to make some people between 25 and 35 homeless by adjusting the single room rate on housing benefit, that has saved not too far off what was supposedbly gained by the 50% top tax rate that he called a pittance.

also to say social security is not constructive use of money is just ridicolous. First we have the fact the majority of welfare payments are spent in the shops rather than sitting in bank accounts, giving 10billion to poor people is far better for the economy than giving it as tax breaks to the rich. Second if the social security bill is going up whilst osborne is imposing cuts then it shows how bad the economy is as in booms the bill naturally goes down or at least it should do if governments dont create new benefits. Third to say looking after the sick, disabled, the elderly, the vulnerable is not good use of cash is just very morally wrong. The tories just dont get it, running a government is not the same as business. But they dont need to get it, they only need to look after their own interests it seems. Even if not reelected by the time the election comes they will have done massive damage to the country and got most of their changes passed.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

well lets put some examples in.

osborne said the top rate of tax wasnt worth increasing as it was a pittance, yet he has decided to make some people between 25 and 35 homeless by adjusting the single room rate on housing benefit, that has saved not too far off what was supposedbly gained by the 50% top tax rate that he called a pittance.

also to say social security is not constructive use of money is just ridicolous. First we have the fact the majority of welfare payments are spent in the shops rather than sitting in bank accounts, giving 10billion to poor people is far better for the economy than giving it as tax breaks to the rich. Second if the social security bill is going up whilst osborne is imposing cuts then it shows how bad the economy is as in booms the bill naturally goes down or at least it should do if governments dont create new benefits. Third to say looking after the sick, disabled, the elderly, the vulnerable is not good use of cash is just very morally wrong. The tories just dont get it, running a government is not the same as business. But they dont need to get it, they only need to look after their own interests it seems. Even if not reelected by the time the election comes they will have done massive damage to the country and got most of their changes passed.

[mertle]

Chrysalis spot on if the destruction causing whats happening now whats another 10bn going to do.

In last 24 hours we heared news of consumer confidence down, shops closures at record levels. The blip revised downward to 0.3% increase that was period run up to christmas and sales which usually shops best period.

Its like I said take the money out of the system is naturally going to impact on the economy. Budget vain attempts to re-address hope rich put in back businesses is osbourne, cameron on there knees kissing rich mens feet say PLEASE DO SOMETHING. Sadly think they will laugh at there mortal pleas.

I asked on another thread how many bussiness men in the bracket as I see it some are top doctors, footballers, council bosses ours is one, pop stars and film stars. The odd one might have business to invest but 90% these wont.

Therefore it should be an incentive not given by right to all.

I don't think there are 277,200 footballers, council bosses, "top doctors", pop and film stars* in the UK, do you?

*90% of the 308,000 50% rate payers.....

Link

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I don't think there are 277,200 footballers, council bosses, "top doctors", pop and film stars* in the UK, do you?

*90% of the 308,000 50% rate payers.....

Link

Sorry you missunderstood what said.

I am refering to those profesions wont invest likely 90% of those profesions which over threshold who are doctors, pop stars, footballers etc wont have there own business to invest.

I think it should be reward for investing it into business to create jobs should get it not given granted to all.

At least answered another question how many are business owners. Though in artists its mute point they are business as they sell merchandise, records.

Before you get too irate, you may find this piece of information useful....

Link page 8

Of a UK adult population of around 51 million, it is estimated that there will be 29.9 million taxpayers in 2011–12. Around 3.7 million of these will pay tax at the higher rate, providing 34.3% of total income tax revenue, and 308,000 taxpayers will pay tax at the additional rate, providing 28.1% of total income tax revenue.

in summary, four million of the nearly thirty million taxpayers (13.5%) contribute 62.4% of the income tax revenue.

[Chrysalis]

yeah but they pay more because they earn more, so they still have more in their pocket, all that stat really highlights is the massive gap in income levels.

There was me thinking it highlighted one seventh of the working population pay three fifths of the total income tax......

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Hugh

There was me thinking it highlighted one seventh of the working population pay three fifths of the total income tax......

for someone to pay more income tax means they earning more, how is that hard to understand?

so if 1/7 pay 3/5 of total tax it means they earning a huge amount more than the other 6/7.