Dispute over IP address with VOIP service

tvout · 12-10-2011, 19:28

Hi all,

I raised a complaint with my VOIP provider after they charged me for calls that should have been free. I did my calculations and hadn't exceeded their allowance as below:
"The trader draws our attention to the terms and conditions of the contract where it states that â€œeach customer gets max 300 minutes per week of free calls, measured over the last 7 days and per unique IP addressâ€. The trader goes on to state that the IP address used by you is also used by other of their customers. It seems that your usage combined with the usage of others using the same IP address exceeded the number of free minutes provided in the contract. "

Surely my IP address when assigned to me dynamically by Virginmedia is unique to me and if only me is using this VOIP service under my account then they must be wrong?
Could they be using some kind of loophole with this IP address thing like saying the IP address is this is based on is that of a Virginmedia switch or something?

**Hugh** · 12-10-2011, 19:39

The IP Address will be that of the VM modem/router - is there anyone else in your house with a device attached to it (wifi or by cable)?

tvout · 12-10-2011, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

The IP Address will be that of the VM modem/router - is there anyone else in your house with a device attached to it (wifi or by cable)?

Hi Hugh, just me and my girlfriend using it and the calls are made through a DECT phone connected to a SIP device (PAP2) connected to the router. No-one else would have made any calls through any account via my home router/connection and I know that no-one else would have the same IP address..
I'm really intrigued to know what evidence they can provide to suggest someone else is making calls from another account from my IP address. I can only assume they're basing it on another VM address somewhere as the calls couldn't have been made via my network other than the ones that were on my bill. I think they're trying to pull a fast one...

Skie · 12-10-2011, 21:12

It would have to be one heck of a coincidence to have your IP re-used by another person who is using the same voip provider. Especially if it were to happen in the same week.

tvout · 13-10-2011, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skie

It would have to be one heck of a coincidence to have your IP re-used by another person who is using the same voip provider. Especially if it were to happen in the same week.

Thanks Skie, I was thinking that it wouldn't generally be possible to have two machines directly connected to the internet with the same IP address, the same hostname/domain (e.g. Yahoo or Google etc) sure but IP address I'd always assume was totally unique to that internet connected device (server/switch/UBR/modem etc).

MovedGoalPosts · 13-10-2011, 18:31

Most IP's are issued dynamically, rather than static.

Dynamic IPs can change. Most are issued for a set period of time, or lease. Dependent on the network configuration that lease can change. If the device remains connected the lease is usually renewed and will retain the same IP. If the device is disconnected and the lease expires then on next connection it might get the same, or a different lease. Dial up type connections inevitably saw many users using similar IPs as those only maintain a connection or lease for the duration of a call. If a lease has expired it can be issued to another device.

Kymmy · 13-10-2011, 21:24

You may find that the simple fact that the IP is on a dynamic address pool means that you are excluded from the offer or automatically assumed that it's a shared IP.

Do you know when your IP last changed, just that these figures are crucial for you take to the provider and explain that you are the only person to use that IP

General Maximus · 13-10-2011, 23:26

you can look in the modem log for that info fyi or your router depending which one you have got

ferretuk · 13-10-2011, 23:28

Firstly, ask the VOIP provider what IP address they believe has made all these calls...

Nopanic · 14-10-2011, 08:21

Unfortunately the only way to prove it wasn't you is through VM's logs and they wont give that detail out. As said if you've used the same IP as someone following a renew you've been really unlucky, maybe some re-seg work has taken place? speed uplift, something like that.

qasdfdsaq · 14-10-2011, 09:49

You could probably make them give it to you, if you wrangle your way through the DPA.

Nopanic · 14-10-2011, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

You could probably make them give it to you, if you wrangle your way through the DPA.

You'd have to trick someone and it could cost them their job ..

Milambar · 14-10-2011, 11:18

Quote:

Unfortunately the only way to prove it wasn't you is through VM's logs and they wont give that detail out. As said if you've used the same IP as someone following a renew you've been really unlucky, maybe some re-seg work has taken place? speed uplift, something like that.

You can make them give it to you, and it won't cost anyone their job. But it will involve enlisting a lawyer,and a judge. Its called a court order.

You'd have to consider if the costs of aquiring a court order to force VM to hand over their logs are worth it though. Also, theres no garuntee a judge would grant the order, although they usually do, if you give them a valid reason for requiring the information.

AbyssUnderground · 14-10-2011, 13:14

They're stupid for basing their service on IP address in the first place... An IP does not, never has and never will identify a person.

Nopanic · 15-10-2011, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground

They're stupid for basing their service on IP address in the first place... An IP does not, never has and never will identify a person.

Well that's not strictly true.. A IP can always be traced back to a user... No matter how many hops they create, if someone has the time resource and technical ability. At the end of the day to get online you need to physically connect somewhere and that location can be found ...