Going Over There, Using Their Health Service

[BBKing]

Bloody Eastern European dentists, staying in their countries, treating our people.

http://news.independent.co.uk/health/article3324429.ece

On a similar note, my partner is currently in Belgium for an operation which was either 2 years wait on the NHS or £1500 more going private here.

[Osem]

I bet they don't get as many health tourists as the UK does though - got any figures on that?

[BBKing]

Given that we charge more than other places and are deeply unwelcoming to furriners, we presumably only get really stupid or rich ones. I think the whole 'health-tourists-ruining-the-NHS' thing is horse conkers, personally, you're more likely to find a foreign born doctor, and what's wrong with that? The NHS would be in deep trouble without them.

[Osem]

It was a serious question hence the absence of !

Are you saying there are no poor and/or very desperate people who come here and make use of the NHS without having to pay?

BTW my wife is foreign and neither she or her family have found the NHS deeply unwelcoming either before or after she became a UK citizen. In fact none of our many foreign friends have made any such claim - odd that for such an unwelcoming place wouldn't you say

Anyway apparently you don't have any figures either so is your rhetoric really any more credible than the BNP's? For a place which is apparently so deeply xenophobic and unwelcoming to foreigners rather a lot have and still are coming here or perhaps you haven't noticed that in Ivory Towers, Chiswick lol

Oh a please don't lecture me about the role of foreign doctors in the NHS - for reasons I won't go into here my family have been unfornate enough to need the NHS on numerous very serious occasions over the last 15 years and come across any number of very capable and efficient foreign staff. We have a Sri Lankan Paediatrician and my children are named after a wonderful Egyptian surgeon without whose considerable efforts they'd never have been born.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by BBKing

Given that we charge more than other places and are deeply unwelcoming to furriners, we presumably only get really stupid or rich ones.

You are, of course, assuming that the staff in the hospital follow correct procedure and get the patients to fill out the correct forms to enable the NHS to charge them or their insurance companies. In my experience, that doesn't always happen. For example, my Aunt is Asthmatic. For a most of the 80's (and a lot of the 90's), she lived abroad, so wasn't paying NI. She came over here a few times, and had a bad Asthma attack. Bad enough that her inhaler didn't work. When she went to Lewisham hospital A&E, they gave her a nebuliser, which did ease her breathing. I don't know about now, but at that point, she said nebulisers weren't cheap.

She pointed this out to the nurse, and asked for the correct paperwork so the NHS could charge her insurance. The nurse refused, saying it was free. My aunt explained how she didn't live in the country, and the nurse still refused.

[BBKing]

This does, of course, all happen in reverse as well, since we can all get treatment free abroad.

My main point, I suppose, is that far from us being the poor put upon British mugs of tabloid fury, used and abused by horrible nasty foreigners, we're a) taking doctors and nurses from abroad because they're cheap*, thus leaving poorer countries with worse healthcare and b) going abroad to save money, thus using other people's healthcare services. Something doesn't quite add up here, if we're saving money and expanding capacity with all these imported doctors, why aren't there enough dentists such that people are forced to travel a thousand miles across Europe?

* This is rather bad news for British trainee medics, who after last year's debacle where there were twice as many people as posts and the idiotic MMC system meant that unsuitable candidates ended up getting interviews, this year it's going to be *three* times. At least Patricia Hewitt's gone.

[WHISTLED]

I bet they don't get as many health tourists as the UK does though - got any figures on that?

I recall at one point our NHS was taking a serious hit from people travlling from Africa, claiming asylum status to get HIV treatment. Things dont change much so probably even worse now

[Stuart W]

Originally Posted by BBKing

This does, of course, all happen in reverse as well, since we can all get treatment free abroad.

My main point, I suppose, is that far from us being the poor put upon British mugs of tabloid fury, used and abused by horrible nasty foreigners, we're a) taking doctors and nurses from abroad because they're cheap*, thus leaving poorer countries with worse healthcare and b) going abroad to save money, thus using other people's healthcare services. Something doesn't quite add up here, if we're saving money and expanding capacity with all these imported doctors, why aren't there enough dentists such that people are forced to travel a thousand miles across Europe?

* This is rather bad news for British trainee medics, who after last year's debacle where there were twice as many people as posts and the idiotic MMC system meant that unsuitable candidates ended up getting interviews, this year it's going to be *three* times. At least Patricia Hewitt's gone.

WHAT???

I lived with a student nurse for 2 yrs in the housing at my local A&E hospital.
The majority of students were from other countries and were getting their nursing and doctors qualifications over here because it is so much CHEAPER and available than their home countries.

A lot of them stay here because they are better paid than at home (depending where "home" is) but a lot do go abroad as soon as they qualify.

[Escapee]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7178416.stm

This story is a sad case of someone having what sounds like a terminal illness, however the story does not indicate if the person was already ill when they came into this country.

I believe it makes all the difference if a foreign person falls ill and is diagnosed during the time they are legally in this country, but if someone comes here because they are ill that should be treated as a different matter.

We should not offer charity to others until our own are looked after, I have a relative (not close) in her early 30's who is now wheelchair bound. The NHS will not operate until she is at least 60 years old, because the remedial work only lasts about 10 years.

[jkat]

Originally Posted by Escapee

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7178416.stm

This story is a sad case of someone having what sounds like a terminal illness, however the story does not indicate if the person was already ill when they came into this country.

I believe it makes all the difference if a foreign person falls ill and is diagnosed during the time they are legally in this country, but if someone comes here because they are ill that should be treated as a different matter.

We should not offer charity to others until our own are looked after, I have a relative (not close) in her early 30's who is now wheelchair bound. The NHS will not operate until she is at least 60 years old, because the remedial work only lasts about 10 years.

i'm sorry to hear about your distant relatives illness but i have to say your statement implies that u wish others to have the same problems that your family have experienced!

a very cruel decision by immigration again, backed up by express/mail/sun readers and their ilk!

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by jkat

backed up by express/mail/sun readers and their ilk!

Have you got proof of that. By the way i don't read comics so don't fit into your idea of a ****** or is it just your anti express/mail/sun readers rant ?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Escapee

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7178416.stm
however the story does not indicate if the person was already ill when they came into this country.

Yes it does, she was first taken ill in Jan 2006.

[jkat]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Have you got proof of that. By the way i don't read comics so don't fit into your idea of a ****** or is it just your anti express/mail/sun readers rant ?

lol i tidy little rant there again sirius, so your an ex express/mail/sun reader ranter??

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by jkat

lol i tidy little rant there again sirius, so your an ex express/mail/sun reader ranter??

Nope you got it wrong i don't read any of those comics and never have . Next please

Been a long time reader of AD2000 and Tree Hugger spotting for beginners weekly if that helps

Originally Posted by Sirius

Nope you got it wrong i don't read any of those comics and never have . Next please

Been a long time reader of AD2000 and Tree Hugger spotting for beginners weekly if that helps

Hope you liked my centre-page spread (oooo-er)....
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