Does ntl offer a viable product any more?

[aranj]

Okay, I've had both good and bad experiences with ntl:
Unfortunately, mostly bad, but I'm not going to gripe about it.

I was lured by their offer of free unmetred dial-up, but was a customer for absolutely ages before I was able to have this service, which they stopped about three months later(!)

But then they offered cheap unmetred dial-up, which was fairly reliable, along with fairly cheap (if not exactly reliable) tv and telephone.

I kept thinking, "it will get better, it will get better" whilst consoling myself with the thought that at least I was saving a few quid.

Then, cheap broadband. Again, fairly reliable.

Now, several years down the line, things don't seem to have improved all that much. Every time it seems to be okay for a while, something else happens, this time on a Sunday when customer services no longer operates.

And I can't even console myself with saving a few bob.

NTL
Phone and TV Family Pack £29.00
Broadband 300k £17.99
TOTAL £46.99

BT et al
Phone (BT Together) £10.50
Sky Family Pack £19.50
Bb 256k Tiscali or similar £17.99
TOTAL £47.99

And that's without shopping around for a good broadband deal.

It's not the money - like I say, I think "okay, ntl isn't great, but it'll get there and meantime I'm saving £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£". But it seems that isn't so.

Ho-hum.

[Matth]

NTL bring neither unique features, nor exceptional prices - you really have pinned it down.

Very little of any use on interactive, and less programme extras than on Freeview.
NTL's own film channel "The Studio" packed up ages ago.
New channels added on Sky that have not come down to NTL.

I'll be honest, a friend decided to go NTL, and I tried to talk them out of it.
PS. They now have a new TV which has DVB - and the channels that are on both, the picture is better on DVB than on NTL - and that is with the STB connected by SCART and using RGB - and it IS definitely going by RGB as the interactive text is much sharper when RGB is selected.

[jtwn]

..and you can have your fair share of problems down the bt route aswell.

I know people who have problems with bt/sky and others who don't. As on here there are people who have their problems with ntl and in my area i don't know anybody who's service has been any different to mine; practically flawless.

All i'm saying is while you may have a problem, others may not and the service from the other providers could just be as bad

Does ntl offer a viable product any more? - Yes.

and that 300k at £17.99 - soon to be 1m at the same price.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Does ntl offer a viable product any more? - Yes.

and that 300k at £17.99 - soon to be 1m at the same price.

Is that it?

[Ignition]

Sadly I don't see that ntl are massively innovative in their packages, they seem to be content with being in the pack and gaining as much cash from the products as possible.
Much like most other companies of that size really...

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by Neil

Is that it?

the broadband products are soon to be market leading in terms of speeds for your monthly outlay. as for the other products they do - I gave up on their TV and phone services a couple of years back as they didnt match BT and SKY for the facilities and functionality.

broadband is the future and due to the kind of network NTL have, they're going to knock the socks off ADSL with their 2mb £25 product plus next year if the speeds are increased at the same rate as this year then we'll be getting 6-8mb for £25!

Originally Posted by Neil

Is that it?

No, but I'm not about to go over all the old ground yet again.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

the broadband products are soon to be market leading in terms of speeds for your monthly outlay.

Hmmm...."Market Leading"? That's not how I would describe ntl at all.

They copied TW's idea of the initial speed increases (some areas still don't have it & TW's upgrade was finished ahead of schedule)

I would say ntl are re-active, not pro-active & "Market Leaders"

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

as for the other products they do - I gave up on their TV and phone services a couple of years back as they didnt match BT and SKY for the facilities and functionality.

And they still don't.

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

broadband is the future and due to the kind of network NTL have, they're going to knock the socks off ADSL with their 2mb £25 product plus next year if the speeds are increased at the same rate as this year then we'll be getting 6-8mb for £25!

Firstly-you won't see those speed increases again next year, & secondly it looks like a v large amount of ADSL exchanges will be able to get 8 meg/£40.00 BB-Now that's market leading......

[Graham F]

Originally Posted by Neil

Firstly-you won't see those speed increases again next year, & secondly it looks like a v large amount of ADSL exchanges will be able to get 8 meg/£40.00 BB-Now that's market leading......

No Neil thats pandering to all the speed freaks out there!! How many people would want to have such speeds or have any use for them?

bloody speed freaks

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

Hmmm...."Market Leading"? That's not how I would describe ntl at all.

They copied TW's idea of the initial speed increases (some areas still don't have it & TW's upgrade was finished ahead of schedule)

I would say ntl are re-active, not pro-active & "Market Leaders"

They are in terms of speed v price Neil.

And they still don't.

In some areas, they DO Neil. My interactive, tv email etc works absolutely fine.

Firstly-you won't see those speed increases again next year, & secondly it looks like a v large amount of ADSL exchanges will be able to get 8 meg/£40.00 BB-Now that's market leading......

How do you know? And which exchanges will be able for 8 meg? Do you have a map/more info?

[edit]

Not to worry, have found the info. 50% of homes (within 2km of the exchange to receive this). You have to have a BT line to receive the service. Your line may not be up to scratcg, so you may only get between 4 - 6 meg.... Sounds OK Neil, but I wish you'd disect this offer like you would with any ntl offer....

[themelon]

Originally Posted by Neil

Hmmm...."Market Leading"? That's not how I would describe ntl at all.

They copied TW's idea of the initial speed increases (some areas still don't have it & TW's upgrade was finished ahead of schedule)

I would say ntl are re-active, not pro-active & "Market Leaders"


And they still don't.


Firstly-you won't see those speed increases again next year, & secondly it looks like a v large amount of ADSL exchanges will be able to get 8 meg/£40.00 BB-Now that's market leading......

TW have a much smaller network and less customers, ntl has had problems with STBs that need changing to.

TW Copied ntls recent speed upgrades!

My ntl TV is better than Sky, my ntl Phoneline is better than BT (no crackles that cant be fixed 'ever' apparently and this is the second BT line I have had with this problem)..............what you think on this is PURELEY a matter of opinion and nothing else. Functionality (usability) is a funny one to be suggested I would actually say there are sections of CR3 FAR more functional than the Sky Dodgyguide like Search and Scan, gaining info on programmes on later, ease of use for ordering PPV, mini tv in EPG instead of lift music, quick on off for Subtitiles. I agree Sky has a better EPG which personally I dont use either way, ntls is too slow, Skys has lift music and you miss watch you watching so essentially both are crap! id ratehr the TV Times. Sky does have some exclusive Interactive but nothing im going to lose sleep over at present.

How do you know this, evidence please ?

Very large amount........nonsense! UK Online say 4.4 million people have access to these speeds, even then its not garunteed past 2km from the exchange. I live 4km from one of these 'magical' exchanges and cant even recieve 1mb on ADSL because the line BT provide is crap and am unlikely to for the forseeable future........go figure! The day ADSL becomes market leading for me........is the day I eat my own hat!

At least with ntl if I live on a digital part of their network I will get Broadband at/near to the speeds specified not some second rate 512k service im paying 1Mb prices for!

However if you can get this mysterious product.........ie you live on the exchange or you can see it close by........go for it excellent price!!

ntl is definately viable for me.........its still cheaper than the BT/Sky Equivilent and better quality than I would be recieving. Hopefully it will become more viable when VOD is released as this means I can cancel Sky Movies as I always miss whatever I want to watch on there.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by orangebird

They are in terms of speed v price Neil.

They are still re-active though (following/copying TW), which surely means that TW are "market Leaders" when it comes to cable BB?

Originally Posted by orangebird

In some areas, they DO Neil. My interactive, tv email etc works absolutely fine.

Oh....that's ok then-that what "Market Leaders" means, some people get a proper/working direct equivalent to Sky, & some don't?
Also-are you referring to ntl's 'interactive' (EPG/TV Guide) or Sky's proper red button 8 screens on Sky News/multiple camera angles on Sky Sports etc interactive?

Important Question----->Do you get full 'Red Button' interactive on Sky News/Sports for example?

Originally Posted by orangebird

How do you know?

Because I have been told by people in ntl that would know.

Originally Posted by orangebird

And which exchanges will be able for 8 meg? Do you have a map/more info?

http://www.ukonline.net/8000/

Originally Posted by orangebird

[edit]

Not to worry, have found the info. 50% of homes (within 2km of the exchange to receive this). You have to have a BT line to receive the service. Your line may not be up to scratcg, so you may only get between 4 - 6 meg.... Sounds OK Neil, but I wish you'd disect this offer like you would with any ntl offer....

http://www.ukonline.net/8000/llu_exchangelist.php

UK Online have smashed through the Internet speed barrier with the introduction of our unique 8Mb broadband service. UK Online Broadband 8000 is available today in selected areas, and will be available to more than 4.4 million homes across the UK by early 2005.

That's a lot of home & a lot of exchanges.

Add to this Bulldogs already running deal with 4 meg DSL and all your phone line/phone calls costs all in for around £50.00, & you've got a fair few!

The other thing to remember, is that these companies that are unbundling the exchanges don't work on ntl's "Coming Soon" theory, when they say soon, they mean it!!

ntl are market followers, not leaders IMO, & I can't see/think of anything they have done to suggest otherwise?

[seaneeboy]

Does NTL offer the best product? Probably not
Is it still viable? absolutely. thousands of people are perfectly happy with a service that giove syou bog-standard tv,phone and broadband. just because you've had a bad experience doesn't mean the whole network is like that...

It does bug me when people decide the whole network is awful and of no use at all, rather than look for a constructive solution.

Yes, it's viable. No, it's not the best. Shock horror, I nearly dropped my cornflakes.

Apols for sarcasm

[Stuart]

Unforetunatly, as Neil says, NTL are reacting to other companies, not being pro active.

Lets look at the upcoming service changes.
Speed increases

True, NTL has recently increased speeds, and will be doing so again in the near future. Telewest has had the new speeds for months now, and even ADSL offers some people 4M or 8 M (although they will only be available to a small percentage of users due to cable length limitations). The one major advantage that NTL offers is that they will be available to everyone, which neither Telewest nor the ADSL ISPs can promise.


PVR
NTL are apparently going to offer a Personal Video Recorder facility. V. Nice (and something I am looking forward to). We don't have any real info on it's facilities yet (hard drive size, ability to watch one channel & record another, extended program guide etc) , and, TBH, Sky + has been around for a couple of years now..

True Video On Demand
Again, this is a nice facility to have, but not, IMO, as good as a true PVR. But, Homechoice (and Kingston Cable I think) have been offering this service for years. In fact it was demonstrated by BT on Tommorrow's World over ten years ago. And, I believe it's not actually being offered by NTL, but another company using the NTL network. So, technically, NTL can claim they are offering VOD in the same way that BT can say they offer 8Meg ADSL..


Regarding Interactive, I personally don't use it, but I have a friend who developed a site for NTL Interactive for her degree project (it was a private site, and was never released). She researched the various systems, and found that in terms of facilities made available to the developer, NTL's interactive (on CR3 or equivalent) is equal to Sky's interactive. She also found NTL considerably more helpful than Sky. She wrote the same letter to NTL, Sky and Telewest. Sky said they could help, but it would cost a lot of money. Telewest didn't reply and NTL said they would help for free and sent her a complete CR3/Liberate development kit & emulator and gave her access to a special test server they have that's not on the main network. I do believe they also gave her extensive technical support.

My point in stating the above is that if the Interactive services provided are crap, I don't think it's entirely NTL's fault. Yes, the pace boxes are underpowered and should be replaced, but apart from that, I lay the blame for crap NTL interactive entirely at the feet of the broadcasters..