Wireless network - the money pit

[Brian D]

I feel a bit stupid, but there you go - best to be honest. I want to set up a wireless network, I have a set top box/USB modem set up and a few helpful people recommended Linksys's WAP Router. This is product BEFW11S4. Unfortunately - and this is where the stupid bit comes in - I purchased by mistake a wireless access point WAP54G.

The set up I eventually want is to network three PCs in various parts of the house, none of them to be connected physically to the ethernet socket which is wired to the set top box. Given that requirement, is there any point in keeping hold of the WAP54G? In what circumstances would I be able to make use of it?

[MovedGoalPosts]

Well you could just add a router, and put the WAP on one of the router's ports, to serve the wireless enabled PCs, whilst the other hard wired devices remain attached by ethernet to the router.

Of course if you can make do with only the one PC, then the WAP can be connected direct to your modem, with your puter having it's wireless card.

*edit: Of course if you've realised your mistake quickly enough and not lost the packaging, you may be able to get an exchange depending on where you bought it.

[Brian D]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

Well you could just add a router, and put the WAP on one of the router's ports, to serve the wireless enabled PCs, whilst the other hard wired devices remain attached by ethernet to the router.

Of course if you can make do with only the one PC, then the WAP can be connected direct to your modem, with your puter having it's wireless card.

*edit: Of course if you've realised your mistake quickly enough and not lost the packaging, you may be able to get an exchange depending on where you bought it.

I don't have any other hard-wired devices. I'm hoping the router will just sit quietly in a corner, minding its own business. From what you say, do I take it that a WAP is only of use in a set up where there is a mixture of wired and wireless connections?

Looks like e-Bay for the WAP54G then, unless someone can give me a reason for keeping it.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Ok, not totally familiar with your Linksys WAP, your user guide may give some clues.

With a hard wired network you would usually have an arrangement of:
modem / STB > router > computers (clients)

[between some the router and client you can add the WAP]

With your wireless network your arrangement will be:
modem / STB > WAP > Computers (clients)

Now if your WAP can support more than one client connected to it at a time, you might just get away with it. If you need to pass files from one client to another, your WAP may not allow this sharing facility and need a router or switch. Additionally a WAP will rarely assign internal client network IP addresses or similar functions, yet routers often can.

Most modems or STBs that ntl offer allow only one physical connection to a client at a time. If you try to share the connection without some form of router capability, only one PC will work. Inevitably you have to keep rebooting your modem/STB every time you change computers.

The router takes care of the sharing capability. The modem/STB effectively sees only the router connection and thinks that this is the only thing asking it for internet access. Gizmos in the router work out what client is trying t send and recieve what data and where that enquiry needs to go, whether from the modem/STB or to another client.

[erol]

There are two functions you need

1) Router function - to share the singlr NTL external public IP address amongst several internal machine

2) WAP - think of this as a hub/switch withpout wires.

If the kit you have purchased so far only meets requirment 2 then you still need something to perform the routing function. You could use a PC for this but it's less than ideal (PC would need to be on for other machines to access net)

If the box you have bought so far is only a wireless AP and not a combined wireless AP / router then you still need a router. You can buy these for about £20-30 I think. Then you go NTL modem to router. Router to AP. AP to PC's (without wires).

HTH (or PM / msh me if you have more queries)

[Brian D]

Originally Posted by erol

There are two functions you need

1) Router function - to share the singlr NTL external public IP address amongst several internal machine

2) WAP - think of this as a hub/switch withpout wires.

If the kit you have purchased so far only meets requirment 2 then you still need something to perform the routing function. You could use a PC for this but it's less than ideal (PC would need to be on for other machines to access net)

If the box you have bought so far is only a wireless AP and not a combined wireless AP / router then you still need a router. You can buy these for about £20-30 I think. Then you go NTL modem to router. Router to AP. AP to PC's (without wires).

HTH (or PM / msh me if you have more queries)

Thanks. The bit that confuses me is the role of the WAP in your layout above - is it not possible to go simply NTL modem to router, router to PCs? I am really sorry for being so obtuse here.

[SOSAGES]

i think wireless is the way to go but not just now i will wait until it works i have read to many horror stories

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by Brian D

Thanks. The bit that confuses me is the role of the WAP in your layout above - is it not possible to go simply NTL modem to router, router to PCs? I am really sorry for being so obtuse here.

Yes, but a router is normally hard wired so you wouldnt have your wireless network.

If you attache your WAP to the router then you wont need wires between the router and your PC's.

The WAP just provides the transmitter for the wireless signal to the computer. It needs the router (unless you are only connecting one PC at a time) to enable the computer to then talk to the other computers pon your netwokr (whether they be hard wired or wireless) or send data to the modem.

Of course the simple anwer if you want wirelss, and are starting from scratch, is to have a router with WAP combined, which is the product you were first recommended.

Silly question, but you do have a wireless card for the PCs you were going to network, else the WAP would have nothing to transmit to.

*edit (just reread erol's post) You can make a PC perform the function of a router using windows built in internet connection sharing. To do this, you would connect your modem by wire to PC #1. You probably need a second network card in your PC#1 unless you are using USB. YOu then to the 2nd network connection of PC#1 connect your WAP. This can transmit signals to PC#2 & PC#3. i.e. PC#1 is effectively acting as your router. The disadvantage with this system is your PC#1 is now using some of it's effort passing traffic for the other 2 whcih cna slow it up a little. PC#1 also has to be swithced on whenever you are using one of the other PCs.

[Brian D]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

Yes, but a router is normally hard wired so you wouldnt have your wireless network.

If you attache your WAP to the router then you wont need wires between the router and your PC's.

The WAP just provides the transmitter for the wireless signal to the computer. It needs the router (unless you are only connecting one PC at a time) to enable the computer to then talk to the other computers pon your netwokr (whether they be hard wired or wireless) or send data to the modem.

Of course the simple anwer if you want wirelss, and are starting from scratch, is to have a router with WAP combined, which is the product you were first recommended.

Silly question, but you do have a wireless card for the PCs you were going to network, else the WAP would have nothing to transmit to.

*edit (just reread erol's post) You can make a PC perform the function of a router using windows built in internet connection sharing. To do this, you would connect your modem by wire to PC #1. You probably need a second network card in your PC#1 unless you are using USB. YOu then to the 2nd network connection of PC#1 connect your WAP. This can transmit signals to PC#2 & PC#3. i.e. PC#1 is effectively acting as your router. The disadvantage with this system is your PC#1 is now using some of it's effort passing traffic for the other 2 whcih cna slow it up a little. PC#1 also has to be swithced on whenever you are using one of the other PCs.

Yes, I've got wireless ethernet cards! I have actually got a peer to peer wireless network working fine, using the USB connection on the host computer. It's just that the host computer (obviously) needs to be always on, and is located in a very inconvenient place so I want the freedom of a routed wireless network to various computers dotted around the house.

Your answer above was most useful, thank you.

[NitroNutter]

Wireless is discussed here quite a bit recently,

Linksys came up quite low on performance tests on several 54g wireless products,

Wireless is prone to interference, ie portable phones, and microwaves when in use kill it stone dead,

No wireless product when tested outside of the manufacturers has ever hit its rated speed. (this wont bear much relevance if you dont do much transfer)

Wireless is prone to eavesdropping known as warchalking and the likes, there are guards with wep and mac filtering for this, but any firmware upgrades usually kills your settings and you gotta re do them, (settings saved to file all to often wont work after a f/w update), and nothing is un hackable, theres plenty of bruters available to crack open your wep,
and if you hardwire someone may break in and drop a line all the way to their house.

had wireless for over a year and its good but its not a 100% in fact 802.11b is about 80% performance and 54g is about 33% performance, dual channel 54g is about 25% performance, its likely you will suffer real poor performance at some point when you really could do with it operating respectably, so i ditched the lot cept 1 WAP and a pci just incase Its ever needed in emergency, I decided a £35 hardwire kit from B&Q was far better, more reliable, more secure, and allways a lot faster, will be there for when I have 1Gbit, and if installed neatly is a house asset, I allways hesitated from doing this in the past as I thought it would be difficult but its really no harder than wiring a plug, i wired 3 beds and the living room of which if you look close you will see about 6" of wire as the only visible portion and that is neat and discreet. to do 4 rooms you really need 1.5 kits but @ £70 that is considerably cheeper than solely using wifi all round.

[Brian D]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

Wireless is discussed here quite a bit recently,

Linksys came up quite low on performance tests on several 54g wireless products,

Wireless is prone to interference, ie portable phones, and microwaves when in use kill it stone dead,

No wireless product when tested outside of the manufacturers has ever hit its rated speed. (this wont bear much relevance if you dont do much transfer)

Wireless is prone to eavesdropping known as warchalking and the likes, there are guards with wep and mac filtering for this, but any firmware upgrades usually kills your settings and you gotta re do them, (settings saved to file all to often wont work after a f/w update), and nothing is un hackable, theres plenty of bruters available to crack open your wep,
and if you hardwire someone may break in and drop a line all the way to their house.

had wireless for over a year and its good but its not a 100% in fact 802.11b is about 80% performance and 54g is about 33% performance, dual channel 54g is about 25% performance, its likely you will suffer real poor performance at some point when you really could do with it operating respectably, so i ditched the lot cept 1 WAP and a pci just incase Its ever needed in emergency, I decided a £35 hardwire kit from B&Q was far better, more reliable, more secure, and allways a lot faster, will be there for when I have 1Gbit, and if installed neatly is a house asset, I allways hesitated from doing this in the past as I thought it would be difficult but its really no harder than wiring a plug, i wired 3 beds and the living room of which if you look close you will see about 6" of wire as the only visible portion and that is neat and discreet. to do 4 rooms you really need 1.5 kits but @ £70 that is considerably cheeper than solely using wifi all round.

All your points are valid and well made - left to my own devices I would have the network completely wired, but unfortunately my wife refuses to have surface wiring anywhere in the house, so I'd have to treat it as a major rewiring job ie routing under floorboards, chasing into mortar, redecorating etc etc. Not on!