Paodophile Amnesty

[downquark1]

This is an interesting concept:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3254382.stm

The counseling could help, but why turn in your hard drive when you can just wipe it?

[Jon M]

interesting article to contrast with debsy's on how women are stereotyped as being non-technical.

notice how the article assumes that it's men that are paedophiles (yes, i'm aware that men are more likely to have problems in this area.. but that's no justification to assume that only men can be paedophiles)

[Xaccers]

That's an interesting point.
The general reaction to stories of school boys who have been seduced by their female teachers is "Woohoo, lucky git! Shagging an older woman!"
Now contrast that with the reaction of people when they hear about a female pupil being seduced by a male teacher: "String him up! Castrate the *******! He took her innocence!"

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

That's an interesting point.
The general reaction to stories of school boys who have been seduced by their female teachers is "Woohoo, lucky git! Shagging an older woman!"
Now contrast that with the reaction of people when they hear about a female pupil being seduced by a male teacher: "String him up! Castrate the *******! He took her innocence!"

That's a very good point. The only difference I can think of is the possibility of pregnancy, but the boys could have got a STD.

Several points:
Pressuring into such acts - is this different for boys than for girls - are girls so innocent they can't put up as much resistance as a boy/man?

There's the possibility of physical rape, but that would warrant serious criminal prosecution which I think was not what Xaccers was getting at.
But that raising an interesting point - can men be physically raped?

It's strange how if these teenage girls where in public, they would be look at as trouble makers - far from innocent, but as soon as something like this happens they would all be innocent who were viciously attacked by evil incarnate.

ends highly controversial and provocative post

[Stuart W]

Originally Posted by downquark1

This is an interesting concept:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3254382.stm

The counseling could help, but why turn in your hard drive when you can just wipe it?

That would be to do with just how you wipe it.

If you mean running FDISK and Format then you may be surprised to hear that if you give me your drive just after you have formated it, I can not only get back all the data you had before the format, but also a whole load of data that was deleted before the format as well.

That's just using comercially available tools. Now, moving on to 'specialist' tools, you could format your drive, then throw it down the concrete stairs to ensure head damage and the drive not running again. But.... I could then send the drive to some nice friendly mates at a certain data recovery department, who would then remove the 'discs' from inside the HDD and read them directly (with proper expensive tools I might add).

So... give it up in amnesty, or risk having it 'found' at a later date.

[Xaccers]

AFAIK there's only been two cases of men being raped (ie not deemed to willingly take part) and those two I believe actually had a fantacy about being raped by a woman, so their body reacted when their concious didn't really want to.
Something like that anyway.

Also, the police generally won't get involved in any cases where the child is 13 or over, unless there has been a complaint made.

I think the difference comes from the sexist view we as society have towards girls and boys.
Girls are viewed as being sweetness and light, and not the evil little bitches they can be.
Guys tend to brag about their sexual conquests, it's something good to them, so a boy sleeping with an older woman is viewed as him being able to pull an older woman, rather than the woman taking advantage of him.

The last thing most fathers want to think of is their daughter having sex (even if she's 42 and married!) as it reminds them she's no longer their little girl.
And as you say, girls can get pregnant which leaves the parents with another child to deal with.
Boys are viewed as being able to walk away from a pregnancy, girls can't.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Stuart W

That would be to do with just how you wipe it.

If you mean running FDISK and Format then you may be surprised to hear that if you give me your drive just after you have formated it, I can not only get back all the data you had before the format, but also a whole load of data that was deleted before the format as well.

Yes I know, but if these are people who are not on the register and have no reason to be suspected, they could wipe the disk go on using it and by the time any investigation came the previous data would be far too fragmented to attract attention.

[Stuart W]

Well..... I would agree with you if paedophiles were informed 4 weeks before arrest, but they arn't.

Bearing that in mind, I would imagin all paedophiles live with the 'risk' of being caught at any moment.

You say that people not on the register needn't worry, but that cannot make any sence. If it did, there would be no people on the register in the first place! The paedo register is a list of paedo's that have been caught. NONE of the people on the list were allready on it if you see what I mean.

Admitedly, people not on the list are at significantly less risk of having their PC siezed, but the risk is still there.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by downquark1

Yes I know, but if these are people who are not on the register and have no reason to be suspected, they could wipe the disk go on using it and by the time any investigation came the previous data would be far too fragmented to attract attention.

I think it's probably those that aren't on the sex offenders register that have more to worry about, after all, they have no idea if their internet traffic is being monitored.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Stuart W

Well..... I would agree with you if paedophiles were informed 4 weeks before arrest, but they arn't.

Bearing that in mind, I would imagin all paedophiles live with the 'risk' of being caught at any moment.

You say that people not on the register needn't worry, but that cannot make any sence. If it did, there would be no people on the register in the first place! The paedo register is a list of paedo's that have been caught. NONE of the people on the list were allready on it if you see what I mean.

Admitedly, people not on the list are at significantly less risk of having their PC siezed, but the risk is still there.

OK OK, it's just that it isn't like a gun amnesty is it? You could take the hard drive out into a field and burn it, you look at a gun and see a gun - a hard drive is different. I was just pointing out that I don't think it would be as effective as other amnesties but I applaud the scheme as it sets out to help the individuals instead of witch hunting.

Originally Posted by Stuart W

That would be to do with just how you wipe it.

If you mean running FDISK and Format then you may be surprised to hear that if you give me your drive just after you have formated it, I can not only get back all the data you had before the format, but also a whole load of data that was deleted before the format as well.

That's true, but there are also tools I've seen advertised, or even given away on cover disks, which will over-write the deleted data repeatedly. Yes, it may still be possible even then to recover some or all of the information, but AIUI it's an expensive process and it wouldn't be financially viable to do it "on the off-chance".

[Stuart W]

Originally Posted by Graham

That's true, but there are also tools I've seen advertised, or even given away on cover disks, which will over-write the deleted data repeatedly. Yes, it may still be possible even then to recover some or all of the information, but AIUI it's an expensive process and it wouldn't be financially viable to do it "on the off-chance".

I agree it would be to expensive for a private company / individual to persue such extreem data recovery, but the Police already have these departments in their employ, so it costs them far less, if anything at all.

Besides, have you seen how much undercover investigations cost?
I watched a prog last night about car jackers..... there were loads of officers watching the thieves for MONTHS. They ended up being arrested by some uniform cops who happened to be in the right place @ the right time.

NOTE: I completely condone the spending of public money in the persuit of crime detection.

Originally Posted by downquark1

This is an interesting concept:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3254382.stm

The counseling could help, but why turn in your hard drive when you can just wipe it?

I've already addressed the HDD question elsewhere, but on the subject of the article, I think it's a good idea.

(Please will readers note that, in the following, I am using the word "paedophile" in its proper sense to mean someone who has an "attraction" to children and not in the Tabloid sense of them automatically being a "child molester")

From what I understand, there are some (not all, but a significant number) of paedophiles who are incredibly ashamed of what they do and how it makes them feel, but they are too scared to seek help to stop themselves from doing it because they're worried that if the information got out they'd risk being "denounced" etc.

(And before anyone says "but all they have to do is stop doing it!", I'd point out that that makes as much sense as telling an alcoholic to lay off the booze or a depressive to "pull themselves together", it just *isn't* that easy)

I am disappointed, therefore, that this proposed "amnesty" would still result in the person (or "man" as has been mentioned elsewhere) being put on the sex offenders register because that still leaves them open to exposure.

Any counselling should be done with the *utmost* discretion and privacy, preferably in private homes so there's no way that the Tabloids or anyone else can "out" these people who are trying to get help.

I disagree with the Lucy Faithfull Foundation's Mr Findlater's comments that "It is in the nature of human sexuality to indulge in increasingly risky behaviour and "push at boundaries", he argues. For paedophiles, this means seeking out ever more extreme material and, eventually, turning their sexual fantasies into reality."

IMO this is nonsense. Yes, *some* people may do this, but to tar everyone with the same brush is as bad as suggesting that people into BDSM will eventually get into more extreme material or even "snuff" (NB snuff movies are a *MYTH*!), this is simply *not* the case.

As the article says "John Carr, internet consultant at charity NCH Action for Children, is more cautious, saying there is no clear correlation between the seriousness of material on someone's hard drive and the likelihood that they are abusing children."

Indeed, I think, although some will certainly disagree, one of the best ways to deal with the problem is, as it says 'According to Donald Findlater, some forces have even resorted to sending out a letter to suspects saying "we know what you've been up to, stop it or face arrest".'

For some paedophiles, this warning may be enough to cause them to stop what they're doing.

In short, I support the idea of the Amnesty, but it would have to be run with great sensitivity to avoid simply driving the problem further underground.

[philip.j.fry]

Originally Posted by Graham

...snippetty-snip...

Well said Graham, just what I was going to say

[downquark1]

I disagree with the Lucy Faithfull Foundation's Mr Findlater's comments that "It is in the nature of human sexuality to indulge in increasingly risky behaviour and "push at boundaries", he argues. For paedophiles, this means seeking out ever more extreme material and, eventually, turning their sexual fantasies into reality."

IMO this is nonsense. Yes, *some* people may do this, but to tar everyone with the same brush is as bad as suggesting that people into BDSM will eventually get into more extreme material or even "snuff" (NB snuff movies are a *MYTH*!), this is simply *not* the case.

As the article says "John Carr, internet consultant at charity NCH Action for Children, is more cautious, saying there is no clear correlation between the seriousness of material on someone's hard drive and the likelihood that they are abusing children."

Indeed, child porn could be a weaning drug that keeps the addict from going after the real thing.

I AM IN NO WAY CONDONING THE PRODUCTION OF SUCH PICTURES