23-10-2024, 18:45
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#1
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RIP Tigger - 12 years?!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bolton
Age: 59
Services: EE Superfast Broadband
Posts: 1,554
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I don't get it...
I've now put in 2 fit notes...neither of which has been accepted. For the life of me I cannot understand how the DWP knows better than a doctor and can override him.
In 2000 I was about to put in a sick note (as they were then), but I got the impression that my job would be at risk if I did, so I reluctantly (and perhaps unwisely) went back to work. Months later I was told by a colleague that if you had a sick note and worked anyway you were not insured as long as the note lasted - and that you could not be sacked for having one.
Back then employers (and, by extension, the dole) were required to listen to a doctor - if s/he said you weren't fit for work, you weren't fit for work. End of.
IMO we need a return to those days. Hence the poll.
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23-10-2024, 18:59
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#2
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Dr Pepper Addict
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Re: I don't get it...
Not sure how you think a poll will help.
I predict the vast majority will vote "doctors know better"
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23-10-2024, 19:30
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#3
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Re: I don't get it...
Unfortunately, the DWP know that there are GPs out there who will provide health notes for a fee. Ditto garages that issue MOT certificates without seeing the vehicle.
"The Fit Notes mean your GP can give you advice to help you return to work. This is because work can play an important part in helping people to recover from illness or injury. The GP can either say you are not fit for work, or can say you MAY be fit for work."
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23-10-2024, 20:42
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#4
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RIP Tigger - 12 years?!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bolton
Age: 59
Services: EE Superfast Broadband
Posts: 1,554
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Re: I don't get it...
I've never heard of prevarication on a fit note. Mine definitely says 'not fit for work'. Granted bribes may, sometimes, be involved.
I wouldn't if I could and I can't afford it anyway.
Summary of my condition:
I had a stroke in 2022. This makes it more likely that I'll have another.
I have high blood pressure, which also puts me at risk. I am taking ramipril for this, but the doctor explained there would be a side-effect: me being unsteady on my feet. I accepted this, because if it's that or another stroke, I know which bet I'll take.
My right hand is virtually useless; I can't even make a fist. Not sure if it's the stroke, hereditary arthritis or both.
I get very tired, very quickly, very easily. Just a short trip to the local Lidl, about 200 yards, does me in. I cannot face full-time work, not now.
My sister, rest her soul, was a manager at GUS or whatever, for years. She knew their system so well she rewrote the manual - and her version was accepted as the new official version. So it seems she would know what she was talking about, yeah? I asked her if she would take me on. Now for years we never got on; she was actually my half-sister (I never did get the full story there), but later on we smoothed things out. Thus I knew I could count on an honest opinion.
To my lack of surprise she said no, she wouldn't, and gave me the distinct impression that looking for work was a waste of time. I actually agree - I wouldn't take on a stroke survivor, either. Too much liability - what if s/he dies on shift? Can the employer prove the stress didn't do it? I have one half-sister left; how much could she sue for if they took me on, knowing the risk? And they would know, because in the unlikely event I get an interview, for their safety and mine I will tell them.
I used to ride a bike. I don't dare now - too unsteady. I believe in a workplace I would be a danger to myself and anyone around me. Remember, Health & Safety starts with the employee, not the manager, and applies to everyone.
And yet, supposedly, I am fit for, and I quote, "some kind of work". They haven't said what kind. I can't even do typing - I can just barely use my right hand. Who wants a one-handed typist who can only work part-time?
Before the stroke hit, I was going to do a PPT course, starting the following Monday. Then I had the stroke and was in hospital for a month. Now I can't stand up for the requisite length of time, and I wouldn't trust myself if I did, with my useless right hand. Same for FLT (I'd have to retake them anyway).
So there you go. I am a genuine claimant who also receives PIP. It's not that I don't want to work; I honestly can't work. I am not safe at work.
That git Sunak and his "sick note culture" nonsense have a lot to answer for.
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"People tend to confuse the words 'new' and 'improved'."
- Agent Phil Coulson, S.H.I.E.L.D.
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Last edited by Anonymouse; 23-10-2024 at 20:45.
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23-10-2024, 21:12
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#5
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cf.mega poster
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Re: I don't get it...
Assuming we're talking about benefits, eg ESA.
Using a "fit note" is firstly of use in the assessment phase. Once a DWP decision has been made, you can use "fit notes" during the appeal process to continue claiming until the appeal has been heard.
IIRC the DWP ask the GP to fill out a form detailing things you can and cannot do.
Simply providing a "fit note " is not enough. Otherwise it would be pointless them detailing each activity and descriptor and awarding points against each one. Wouldn't need a claim form either.
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24-10-2024, 18:32
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#6
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Re: I don't get it...
As those who have to claim will know, the move from DLA as a child where the situation is "What do you have?", became "How does it affect you?" as an adult claiming PIP.
ESA changed a lot too, with dedicated DWP staff deciding if you COULD work, or if you COULD NOT work. Then those staff disappeared, and ESA decisions became more radical.
Legacy cases, having been assessed by "experts" are apparently hard to nullify or reevaluate. But I expect Labour to move the goalposts again, lumping those on ESA with other claimants on long term sickness benefits. And I expect that regime change to happen sooner rather than later.
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24-10-2024, 19:55
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#7
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cf.mega poster
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Re: I don't get it...
Never been solely about "what do you have". It's always been about how does "what you have" affect you, and is it to a significant amount of discomfort. Eg Somebody showing very slight signs of osteoarthritis is not going to be considered in the same way as somebody needing a joint replacement. "What they have" is the same, but the impact is different.
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24-10-2024, 20:07
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#8
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: I don't get it...
DLA was about what you had and the change to PIP meant it was about how it affected you. Camerons idea was that some people cope with disabilities better than others and advances in aids can sometimes make certain disabilities less onerous. This was designed to save money.
However, this system has ended up costing more, so it has been suggested that PIP be changed, with the DLA style of assessing based on condition and severity being used once again.
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24-10-2024, 20:46
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#9
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Re: I don't get it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter
DLA was about what you had and the change to PIP meant it was about how it affected you. Camerons idea was that some people cope with disabilities better than others and advances in aids can sometimes make certain disabilities less onerous. This was designed to save money.
However, this system has ended up costing more, so it has been suggested that PIP be changed, with the DLA style of assessing based on condition and severity being used once again.
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From old Decision Makers' Guide on DLA.
Care Component.
Quote:
Lowest rate
61063 The lowest rate is awarded to people who are so severely disabled physically or mentally that
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Mobility.
Quote:
61319 Virtually unable to walk means unable to walk to any appreciable extent or practically unable to walk. The base point is a total inability to walk. It is extended to take in people who can technically walk but only to an insignificant extent
...
61321 All aspects of a claimant’s walking ability must be considered, which result from physical disablement, and an evaluation of its quality then made. This is on the basis that firstly, walking achieved only with severe discomfort is discounted and secondly, that appropriate attention is paid to manner, speed, distance and time. All factors must be viewed before the onset of severe discomfort.
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DLA may not have a points system, but the degree to which they are affected is relevant.
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25-10-2024, 22:07
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#10
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RIP Tigger - 12 years?!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bolton
Age: 59
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Posts: 1,554
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Re: I don't get it...
May I point out that the only assessment I have had so far is by phone, not even in person. How can you show difficulties like mine over the phone?
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"People tend to confuse the words 'new' and 'improved'."
- Agent Phil Coulson, S.H.I.E.L.D.
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25-10-2024, 22:47
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#11
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Woke and proud !
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: I don't get it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymouse
May I point out that the only assessment I have d so far is by phone, not even in person. How can you show difficulties like mine over the phone?
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You can't. They'll make a stupid decision, hope you accept and go away. Appeal if needed, they usually lose /offer no defence. Its a sick country in lots of ways.
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25-10-2024, 23:47
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#12
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Dr Pepper Addict
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Re: I don't get it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
Appeal if needed, they usually lose /offer no defence.
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Yep. My daughter did this, and won.
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31-10-2024, 00:32
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#13
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Temporarily Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 17
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Re: I don't get it...
Doctors know your health best, so it doesn’t make sense for the DWP to override them. After your stroke, this must be tough. We definitely need a system that listens to medical professionals. Hope things improve.
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04-11-2024, 17:55
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#14
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RIP Tigger - 12 years?!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bolton
Age: 59
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Re: I don't get it...
I had a blood test - and 2 days later they asked for another one, possible kidney trouble. Plus I have my annual check up on Wednesday.
Plus I gather my conditions need to have deteriorated before the DWP will accept the fit note. I shall mention this to my doctor.
They should ask employers if they'd take me on. I can almost guarantee they wouldn't. Oh well.
__________________
"People tend to confuse the words 'new' and 'improved'."
- Agent Phil Coulson, S.H.I.E.L.D.
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04-11-2024, 19:57
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#15
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Woke and proud !
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: I don't get it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymouse
I had a blood test - and 2 days later they asked for another one, possible kidney trouble. Plus I have my annual check up on Wednesday.
Plus I gather my conditions need to have deteriorated before the DWP will accept the fit note. I shall mention this to my doctor.
They should ask employers if they'd take me on. I can almost guarantee they wouldn't. Oh well.
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Ask if the DWP if they will give you a job. If they won't then they can't complain.
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