Government ignored expert advice and relaxed laws on sale of acids

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7856041.html

The Government ignored expert advice and made changes in 2015 that made it easier to buy dangerous acids that have been used in a spate of attacks in recent weeks, The Independent can reveal.

Seems to me they really didn't think matters through as thoroughly as we the public might expect.

[nomadking]

1) The people using them that are the REAL problem. But we're not allowed to talk about that, are we?
2) Attacks were taking place BEFORE 2015. (and before 2010).
Article from May 2010.

A charity is carrying out research into acid attacks in the UK following a number of high profile cases.
The Acid Survivors Trust International wants to find out how many attacks happen in the UK and if more support is needed for victims.

In the year of 2012 alone, 71 cases of acid attacks were reported while these incidents had affected about 98 people. With help of the records, we found out that around 3257 reports of such barbarism were filed during the time period of 1999 to 2012.

3) The attacks tend to involve household chemicals, not laboratory standard ones.
4) A new Act was introduced instead.

On 26 March 2015, the Poisons Act 1972 was amended via the Deregulation Act 2015 and the Control of Poisons and Explosives Precursors Regulations 2015 were introduced to create a cohesive regime to control sales of explosives precursors and poisons. All licences issued under the 2014 regulations will continue to remain valid until expiration.

1. Regulated substances

An EPP licence is required before regulated substances can be legitimately supplied to a member of the public.
nitric acid: 3% w/w
1.2 Reportable substances

sulphuric acid
Ammonia 10% w/w
Formic acid 25% w/w
Hydrochloric acid 10% w/w
Hydrofluoric acid alkali metal bifluorides; ammonium bifluoride alkali metal fluorides; ammonium fluoride sodium silicofluoridePhosphoric acid
Potassium hydroxide 17% of total caustic alkalinity
Sodium hydroxide 12% of total caustic alkalinity

5) So there ARE restriction still in place.

Originally Posted by nomadking

1) The people using them that are the REAL problem. But we're not allowed to talk about that, are we?

Is anyone saying people using them are not the problem? I think people are well aware they are. It's just hoping bad people do good things is a fools errand so instead we discuss how we can use the law to punish bad people and prevent them access to the tools which allow them to do bad things.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

Is anyone saying people using them are not the problem? I think people are well aware they are. It's just hoping bad people do good things is a fools errand so instead we discuss how we can use the law to punish bad people and prevent them access to the tools which allow them to do bad things.

You mean like prevent access to things like knives and guns? That works well, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by nomadking

You mean like prevent access to things like knives and guns? That works well, doesn't it?

Actually, yes, it does.

How many gun deaths do we have in this country compared to the USA (pro rata)?

The gun homicide rate in England and Whales is about one for every 1 million people, according to the Geneva Declaration of Armed Violence and Development, a multinational organization based in Switzerland.

In a population of 56 million, that adds up to about 50 to 60 gun killings annually. In the USA, by contrast, there are about 160 times as many gun homicides in a country that is roughly six times larger in population. There were 8,124 gun homicides in 2014, according to the latest FBI figures.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ates/85994716/

[Osem]

There's any number of ordinary, readily available household devices, products and chemicals which can be used to hurt, main or kill others. Banning or restricting just a tiny number of them isn't going to make any difference as the idiots who do such things will simply find something else to use.

IIRC there have been no reported acid attacks since the arrests a week or two ago which might indicate that there is no epidemic. Just a few dodgy people can have a hugely disproportionate effect on crime levels. We can't cure this problem, all we can do is set punishments which act as some form of deterrent and for those who won't be deterred, keep locking them up.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Actually, yes, it does.

How many gun deaths do we have in this country compared to the USA (pro rata)?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ates/85994716/

What has the US got to do with this? This country has never really had any full-on gun culture as the US.

In 2002/03 there were just under 10,250 non-air firearm offences in England & Wales and accounted for around 43% of all firearm offences. During the mid-2000s there was a slight increase in the number of non-air firearm offences recorded. Non-air firearm offences were around 8% higher in 2005/06 compared to 2002/03.

And that is with a ban in place since 1997.

In 2014/15 the Metropolitan police recorded the largest number of non-air firearm offences accounting for just over 33% of all non-air firearm offences in England & Wales. Compared to 2013/14 the number of non-air weapon offences recorded by the Metropolitan police increased by 3.6%.
West Midlands police had the highest rate of non-air firearm offences in 2014/15 (20 per 100,000 head of population) whilst Hertfordshire had the lowest (1 per 100,000 head of population)

For the year ending March 2015 there were just over 1,000 non-air firearm offences in which an individual was injured. This is a decrease of 6% on the same period in 2014.
Of the occurrences where someone was injured only 2% (19) resulted in a fatal injury. There was a serious injury in 14% (146) of occurrences, and a slight injury in 84% (876).

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

1) The people using them that are the REAL problem. But we're not allowed to talk about that, are we?

Nothing to stop you talking about that if you want to.