Shadow Cabinet Anger Over Shock Corbyn Letter

[Arthurgray50@blu]

http://news.sky.com/story/1595110/sh...-corbyn-letter

Corbyn is a total joke, Because he cannot get the full commitment from his own shadow cabinet to back his decision NOT to go to war against ISIS. He has decided to go to the membership for there assistance

He is a total joke, He selected his shadow cabinet, to back him. They have made there voices heard.

And because they wont support him, he goes to the membership that elected him.

I give him to January, before he has to resign. Him become PM you must be joking

[adzii_nufc]

Pretty much cementing what people already knew. Labour is decimated.

However! Something Damien mentioned in another thread has me worried and no doubt has others wondering, what if Labour persist with the current course until the Tories reach the point they're so unpopular that people actually vote Labour in with the current ideologies

At the same time, people could just continue to press Tories knowing there's a bigger devil in the wings.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

http://news.sky.com/story/1595110/sh...-corbyn-letter

Corbyn is a total joke, Because he cannot get the full commitment from his own shadow cabinet to back his decision NOT to go to war against ISIS. He has decided to go to the membership for there assistance

He is a total joke, He selected his shadow cabinet, to back him. They have made there voices heard.

And because they wont support him, he goes to the membership that elected him.

I give him to January, before he has to resign. Him become PM you must be joking

Yeah what a joke he is, fancy asking the members what they think before supporting something as serious as war, it's almost as if he doesn't realise politics is all about telling people what to do rather than asking them what to do, just imagine if bliar had done the same, it might have saved a lot of British families a lot of heartache

---------- Post added at 23:53 ---------- Previous post was at 23:51 ----------

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

Pretty much cementing what people already knew. Labour is decimated.

However! Something Damien mentioned in another thread has me worried and no doubt has others wondering, what if Labour persist with the current course until the Tories reach the point they're so unpopular that people actually vote Labour in with the current ideologies

At the same time, people could just continue to press Tories knowing there's a bigger devil in the wings.

That's not a what if it's a when. Opposition rarely win an election it's more a case of the incumbents losing them.

[adzii_nufc]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yeah what a joke he is, fancy asking the members what they think before supporting something as serious as war, it's almost as if he doesn't realise politics is all about telling people what to do rather than asking them what to do, just imagine if bliar had done the same, it might have saved a lot of British families a lot of heartache

---------- Post added at 23:53 ---------- Previous post was at 23:51 ----------



That's not a what if it's a when. Opposition rarely win an election it's more a case of the incumbents losing them.

I see that point, I completely agree, it's just a bit different with Syria overall, I don't think any of us would support boots on the ground in Syria, speaking for myself a bit there though. It's pretty much going to be a Drone/Fighter striking operation with no troops as far as infantry goes. I'd be happy to speak out against man power on the ground. Air strikes and drone strikes are something I can live with though (More about cost than lives lost in that case)

Again though, I don't think there's any doubting your point about Blair sticking us in the deep end. If we're being superheroes and fighting ISIS then fair game, if we have ulterior or bogus motives such as Blair and the whole Iraq nonsense then I'd rather have no part in it.

It's a bit annoying to see Hollande goading us into it though. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34945224)

Again though, I can support an operation with minimal to no loss of British life. I can't support another Afghanistan/Iraq in which we send troops and inevitably have casualties for what? Democracy in a country that has no interest in it.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

I see that point, I completely agree, it's just a bit different with Syria overall, I don't think any of us would support boots on the ground in Syria, speaking for myself a bit there though. It's pretty much going to be a Drone/Fighter striking operation with no troops as far as infantry goes. I'd be happy to speak out against man power on the ground. Air strikes and drone strikes are something I can live with though (More about cost than lives lost in that case)

Again though, I don't think there's any doubting your point about Blair sticking us in the deep end. If we're being superheroes and fighting ISIS then fair game, if we have ulterior or bogus motives such as Blair and the whole Iraq nonsense then I'd rather have no part in it.

It's a bit annoying to see Hollande goading us into it though. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34945224)

Again though, I can support an operation with minimal to no loss of British life. I can't support another Afghanistan/Iraq in which we send troops and inevitably have casualties for what? Democracy in a country that has no interest in it.

What do you think the RAF can achieve with next to no planes that the United States, Russian and french airforces couldn't do with loads? It's hard enough to fight an ideal on the ground let alone from the air, all air strikes will achieve is to radicalise more Muslims, Dave himself said it can't be done from the air alone and is relying on 70000 moderate Syrians to do the fighting and dying for us, problem is where are they and why haven't they done anything yet? Going to war on more dodgy intelligence and what happens when they don't show up

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6750161.html

Or worse sell their weapons to isis

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=25539314

The more I see and hear the more I think we should have nothing to do with it and am grateful to corbyn for asking the questions no one else bothered to in their rush to war but to be fair why would politicians wait, precious few have combat experience and it won't be their children coming home in body bags. Wasn't it Einstein who said something like the surest sign of insanity was to repeat the same mistakes over and over without learning anything.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yeah what a joke he is, fancy asking the members what they think before supporting something as serious as war, it's almost as if he doesn't realise politics is all about telling people what to do rather than asking them what to do, just imagine if bliar had done the same, it might have saved a lot of British families a lot of heartache

Corbyn has already said he wouldn't back air strikes. His e-mail asking for thoughts is designed to pressure the PLP into backing him but the PLP is not the Parliamentary representatives of Labour members, they represent their constituents.

That's not a what if it's a when. Opposition rarely win an election it's more a case of the incumbents losing them.

There usually needs to be a credible opposition party to take advantage though, people thought that in 1992 but didn't trust Kinnock.

[techguyone]

Corbyn will undoubtedly let his MP's have a 'free' vote and things will wobble along until the next differing of party opinions (I kept it short and sweet as too many Laboury type supporters have a flouncy turn if you say bad stuff about their party)

[heero_yuy]

If Corbyn is a joke I can't wait for the punchline.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Corbyn will undoubtedly let his MP's have a 'free' vote and things will wobble along until the next differing of party opinions (I kept it short and sweet as too many Laboury type supporters have a flouncy turn if you say bad stuff about their party)

So my cunning plan worked!

---------- Post added at 10:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

What do you think the RAF can achieve with next to no planes that the United States, Russian and french airforces couldn't do with loads? It's hard enough to fight an ideal on the ground let alone from the air, all air strikes will achieve is to radicalise more Muslims, Dave himself said it can't be done from the air alone and is relying on 70000 moderate Syrians to do the fighting and dying for us, problem is where are they and why haven't they done anything yet? Going to war on more dodgy intelligence and what happens when they don't show up

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6750161.html

Or worse sell their weapons to isis

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=25539314

The more I see and hear the more I think we should have nothing to do with it and am grateful to corbyn for asking the questions no one else bothered to in their rush to war but to be fair why would politicians wait, precious few have combat experience and it won't be their children coming home in body bags. Wasn't it Einstein who said something like the surest sign of insanity was to repeat the same mistakes over and over without learning anything.

^This ..

The air stike option seems more a political response than a military one. Cameron's problem will come when one of our jets are shot down and the pilots captured by ISIS. Noone is talking about this scenario ..

UK energies are better spent in helping the Kurds and the Iraq army fight ISIS. More importantly, the UK can have more impact on the war by working on UN sanctions for Saudi Arabia and Iran who finance the conflict. They can also go after the **** who are buying the ISIS oil and close these operations down.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by ianch99

UK energies are better spent in helping the Kurds and the Iraq army fight ISIS. More importantly, the UK can have more impact on the war by working on UN sanctions for Saudi Arabia and Iran who finance the conflict. They can also go after the **** who are buying the ISIS oil and close these operations down.

^^

This would be far more effective than lobbing bombs about in Syria and killing yet more innocent civilians.

To say that ISIS in Syria is a threat to the UK is as plausible as the WMD in 45 mins from the last time.

Our own streets would be immeasurably safer if the hate preachers were rounded up and chucked out or imprisoned and the radical mosques and madrassahs in our own towns closed. IMHO.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

^^

This would be far more effective than lobbing bombs about in Syria and killing yet more innocent civilians.

To say that ISIS in Syria is a threat to the UK is as plausible as the WMD in 45 mins from the last time.

Our own streets would be immeasurably safer if the hate preachers were rounded up and chucked out or imprisoned and the radical mosques and madrassahs in our own towns closed. IMHO.

Spot on. Which is the better ISIS propaganda headline to the gullible and weak minded:

a) Cowardly Christian crusaders kill innocent Muslim women and children
b) ISIS fighters engaged in fierce fighting with Kurd and Iraq forces

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

^^

This would be far more effective than lobbing bombs about in Syria and killing yet more innocent civilians.

To say that ISIS in Syria is a threat to the UK is as plausible as the WMD in 45 mins from the last time.

Our own streets would be immeasurably safer if the hate preachers were rounded up and chucked out or imprisoned and the radical mosques and madrassahs in our own towns closed. IMHO.

Personally i think ISIS already have fighters here thanks to the ability to cross Europe with absolutely NO checks what so ever. Then they pass through the tunnel along with all the migrants wanting to enter the free bank of the United kingdom, we then fund them with payouts whilst they plan there attacks. I would love some apologist to try and say that could not be happening right now.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Personally i think ISIS already have fighters here thanks to the ability to cross Europe with absolutely NO checks what so ever. Then they pass through the tunnel along with all the migrants wanting to enter the free bank of the United kingdom, we then fund them with payouts whilst they plan there attacks. I would love some apologist to try and say that could not be happening right now.

To that extent Hollande and France are reaping some of what they sowed. France has long been a prime driver of EU policy including open borders and it's clear that the warnings that this could happen were ignored in typical EU 'we know better' fashion. Suddenly, now the ramifications of that policy are clear for all to see, it's become a very bad idea. Pity they didn't listen to those who could see the obvious in the first place eh?...

[ianch99]

Here we go ..

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Here we go ..

Go where i have said what i wanted to say.