V+ : Does VM protect BBC1 and Radio 4 above all other on the network?

[RichardCoulter]

During a discussion about the Emergency Broadcasting Network, it came out that BBC1 and Radio 4 are given special treatment with regards to making them more resilient in the event of something like a nuclear attack.

The reason being, apparently, is that these frequencies would be taken over by the Emergency Broadcasting Network. This was in relation to terrestrial television and radio services.

Does anybody know how if VM gives these channels any more of a priority over other channels? Maybe it's one of the reasons that they aren't encrypted??

[nodrogd]

I can see this applying to Freeview, & in the case of Radio 4, the Longwave transmitter at Droitwich. As far as Cable is concerned, there are so many links in the chain that would have to work in an emergency (power to cabinets etc) that it would be impossible to guarantee a service. When the oil depot at Buncefield blew up, just down the road from us, damage to the headend building at Hemel led to the entire local network (Phones, Broadband & TV) being down for a week.

[RichardCoulter]

Do you know why the Droitwich transmitter in particular would be protected?

I was thinking that cable would be more resilient as it is mostly underground, but you're right it isn't really.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Do you know why the Droitwich transmitter in particular would be protected?

I was thinking that cable would be more resilient as it is mostly underground, but you're right it isn't really.

Two reasons that I know of:

1. It is used as a time reference by a lot of test equipment. It is atomic controlled for frequency.

2. IIRC our nuclear subs monitor it, LW propagates well around the globe, and if it goes off air then they go to alert status.

It is also relatively easy to fabricate a receiver for the signal from odds and sods, unlike DAB, or FM.

[arcimedes]

Are you thinking of the MSF60 transmitter which was at Rugby and moved to Cumbria. This transmits a continuous time signal and I presume frequency as well.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by arcimedes

Are you thinking of the MSF60 transmitter which was at Rugby and moved to Cumbria. This transmits a continuous time signal and I presume frequency as well.

I believe both are used in this way. I was aware of Rugby MSF on 60KHz LW.

[nodrogd]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Do you know why the Droitwich transmitter in particular would be protected?

I was thinking that cable would be more resilient as it is mostly underground, but you're right it isn't really.

Long Wave uses simple battery powered radios, so if the grid goes down they will still work. As far as I know the backup power generation capacity at Droitwich has still been retained, & the 500kW output is at a stretch receiveable over the entire country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Radio_4#Outline

[Mr K]

Stuff BBC1 and Radio 4, surely Challenge +1 should be the priority channel in the event of armageddon....

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Two reasons that I know of:

1. It is used as a time reference by a lot of test equipment. It is atomic controlled for frequency.

2. IIRC our nuclear subs monitor it, LW propagates well around the globe, and if it goes off air then they go to alert status.

It is also relatively easy to fabricate a receiver for the signal from odds and sods, unlike DAB, or FM.

Yes, I have been told this before. I have also been told that if, for example, the UK is subject to a nuclear attack, our armed forces outside the country wait until 6AM to see if the 'Today' programme starts on Radio 4. If it doesn't, they have to assume that the country has been severely, severely damaged or obliterated (serious). Maybe some of our ex forces members would know?

This is why I wondered if VM took any special measures to keep Radio 4 on air.

Also (I may have got this wrong), but ISTR that the BBC wanted to close down the Radio 4 LW service as part of their cuts due to the licence fee freeze and because the valves were getting increasingly hard to source. Perhaps the threat of a nuclear attack is now considered unlikely- but what about the stations time reference function??

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I believe both are used in this way. I was aware of Rugby MSF on 60KHz LW.

What would you hear if you tuned to this frequency?

Originally Posted by Mr K

Stuff BBC1 and Radio 4, surely Challenge +1 should be the priority channel in the event of armageddon....

Lol, if they did this, Challenge +1 would still be off air as it would be taken over by the Emergency Broadcasting Service.

If it becomes apparent that the world is about to end and any VM customers are watching channel 607- this is what you'll see!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-Doomsday.html

[arcimedes]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

What would you hear if you tuned to this frequency?

Originally back in the late sixties you would have heard a pulse every second with a longer one on the minute. This was changed later to a continuous signal interrupted every second and a longer one on the minute. Additional information was also encoded in the transmission. I think one was the offset from the second as transmitted to the second that navigators to find their position.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Yes, I have been told this before. I have also been told that if, for example, the UK is subject to a nuclear attack, our armed forces outside the country wait until 6AM to see if the 'Today' programme starts on Radio 4. If it doesn't, they have to assume that the country has been severely, severely damaged or obliterated (serious). Maybe some of our ex forces members would know?

It's one of the criteria that our tactical submarine force uses to assess whether or not the UK has been victim to a nuclear attack, and hence when to open the envelope containing the letter each PM writes when they take up office telling them what to do in the event of the destruction of the UK.

Obviously other forces have a somewhat more 'interactive' and clear view of the world situation hence don't need such fail-safes. The submarines sit incommunicado for months on end.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by arcimedes

Originally back in the late sixties you would have heard a pulse every second with a longer one on the minute. This was changed later to a continuous signal interrupted every second and a longer one on the minute. Additional information was also encoded in the transmission. I think one was the offset from the second as transmitted to the second that navigators to find their position.

Thanks- you know I think I heard this as a schoolboy when playing around with my first transistor radio!

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

It's one of the criteria that our tactical submarine force uses to assess whether or not the UK has been victim to a nuclear attack, and hence when to open the envelope containing the letter each PM writes when they take up office telling them what to do in the event of the destruction of the UK.

Obviously other forces have a somewhat more 'interactive' and clear view of the world situation hence don't need such fail-safes. The submarines sit incommunicado for months on end.

Interesting- thanks for the added perspective . Are you ex forces?

[harry_hitch]

This thread is both informative and rather disturbing at the same time. I never knew about Radio 4. I knew there was an emegemcy broadcast system, but I never looked into it. I always just figured I would hear about it via someone at work who saw it it on Facebook/Twitter these days. I guess I better get a battery operated radio, although I think it will be unlikely that I will need it.

This has been fascinating so far, but it really is a horrible thought to think of some poor captain possibly waking up one day, not hearing a radio show and thus having to retaliate against another country.

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how securely is the Droitwitch transmitter protected? What happens if (in the very, very extremely unlikely event) someone i.e suicide bomber takes it out, I guess there is a fail safe to stop nuclear war happening accidently?

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by harry_hitch

This thread is both informative and rather disturbing at the same time. I never knew about Radio 4. I knew there was an emegemcy broadcast system, but I never looked into it. I always just figured I would hear about it via someone at work who saw it it on Facebook/Twitter these days. I guess I better get a battery operated radio, although I think it will be unlikely that I will need it.

This has been fascinating so far, but it really is a horrible thought to think of some poor captain possibly waking up one day, not hearing a radio show and thus having to retaliate against another country.

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how securely is the Droitwitch transmitter protected? What happens if (in the very, very extremely unlikely event) someone i.e suicide bomber takes it out, I guess there is a fail safe to stop nuclear war happening accidently?

I don't know the answer to your question, but let's hope that Droitwich is protected. If it gets blown up, it could set off a chain of events.

If it wasn't such a serious matter, this would be a good idea to base a film on!

[steveh]

How long 198KHz keeps broadcasting is primarily dependent on how long the remaining valves last. There's a letter from the BBC that says they will get to at least 2016 when the BBC's charter is due for renewal, at which time the Government will need to decide if they really need the transmitters to be replaced. https://www.elexon.co.uk/wp-content/...ram-180712.pdf

Valves do have better protection against electromagnetic pulse damage in the event of a nuclear blast, but when they're connected to a massive aerial array that probably doesn't help. It might be easier to restart after though unlike VM's network which would almost certainly be toast.

There's a good piece on the history of the Droitwich transmitters here: http://www.bbceng.info/Operations/tr...ch_calling.htm