Virgin Media extends partnership with EE

[Ben B]

Virgin Media has renewed a long-term agreement with EE that will see the latter continue to provide the network and services offered to Virgin Mobile customers

http://www.cable.co.uk/news/virgin-e...-ee-801652178/

Hope they included 4G in the agreement

[qasdfdsaq]

Renews != extends.

And indeed they seem deliberately coy about *not* mentioning 4G in the press releases.

[nefu]

Actually the press release seems to mention 2, 3 and 4G: quote
Dana Strong, Virgin Media's Chief Operating Officer, hailed the extension, describing EE's MVNO platform - which grants access to the widest 2G, 3G and 4G coverage in the UK - as the country's "leading mobile network".

[Perfect Choice]

VM Business are already offering 4G, see below so hopefully will follow for the consumer business. My family except one (he needs unlimited data from 3!) are all with Orange > EE, wondering if there is any route to move over to VM Mobile but we have mostly PAYG with plenty of credit which we don't want to lose and it will take some time to use it up!


Virgin Media Business partners with EE for 4G launch

http://www.cable.co.uk/news/virgin-m...nch-801638155/

[qasdfdsaq]

Yeah as I've said before I doubt they'll be in a rush. The biggest thing holding back 4G is lack of knowledge of what its advantages are, and when you've got the network whose staff have the worst product knowledge of the major UK retailers that's not a great combination.

[Ben B]

I see they're going to be giving ASDA Mobile customers 4G next year link and they're launching Pay As You Go 4G plans themselves from the end of the month link so it's a definite possibility that it could have been included, they're just not saying it yet. Will EE bill go down, will I get more data before my contract ends? Probably not

[Pierre]

As I've mentioned in another thread, VM is currently upgrading it's mobile network so that it will only be using EE's masts and not the rest f the EE network. It's called a "thick MVNO" model.

This will give VM control over the products and services it can provide, instead of having to just resell what EE offer, but usually at a later date dictated by EE.

Unlike the off-net fibre project this has full Liberty Global backing, as this is something the liberty group are keen to do elsewhere in Europe, and will be looking at how it develops with interest.

[qasdfdsaq]

Not quite - they'll still be using the vast majority of "the rest of the EE network". A radio mast does nothing without spectrum, backhaul, core, and controllers. First and foremost, VM do not have licenses to use any 3G or 4G spectrum, so will have to rely completely on EE's spectrum and capacity. They backhaul some sites, but have nowhere near enough reach for all 18,000 so will be relying on EE's backhaul. Allowing others to run RNCs over EE's spectrum would break EE's network, so they'll rely on EE's network control as well.

In fact if you look at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...chitecture.svg

they'll continue to use EE's network for everything in the red and blue bits, only providing some of their own assets for the core and services segments,

[spankysmagicpian]

Originally Posted by Perfect Choice

VM Business are already offering 4G, see below so hopefully will follow for the consumer business. My family except one (he needs unlimited data from 3!) are all with Orange > EE, wondering if there is any route to move over to VM Mobile but we have mostly PAYG with plenty of credit which we don't want to lose and it will take some time to use it up!


Virgin Media Business partners with EE for 4G launch

http://www.cable.co.uk/news/virgin-m...nch-801638155/

Indeed - we are looking at it at the moment for work. I can see it being pricey in the short term. It does have it's advantages though like the access back to our WAN etc.

[qasdfdsaq]

Because 3G can't give you access to your WAN?!

TBH EE's implementation of 4G is pretty shabby at the moment.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Not quite - they'll still be using the vast majority of "the rest of the EE network". A radio mast does nothing without spectrum, backhaul, core, and controllers. First and foremost, VM do not have licenses to use any 3G or 4G spectrum, so will have to rely completely on EE's spectrum and capacity. They backhaul some sites, but have nowhere near enough reach for all 18,000 so will be relying on EE's backhaul. Allowing others to run RNCs over EE's spectrum would break EE's network, so they'll rely on EE's network control as well.

In fact if you look at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...chitecture.svg

they'll continue to use EE's network for everything in the red and blue bits, only providing some of their own assets for the core and services segments,

Currently VM offers Mobile service as a MVNO with EE. VM owns the customers and these are served by means of a Thin MVNO model in which VM provides the IT stack in support of Billing and EE provides the full Network piece of RAN and mobile Core Network. With mV and mBB traffic passing directly to the PSTN and Internet.

VM is moving to a Thick MVNO in which VM continues to provide the IT stack, albeit refreshed, and now also seeks to provide the Network piece beyond the selected MNO’s RAN. With mV and mBB traffic being handled by VM and passing to the PSTN and Internet. Effectively transitioning from EE Hosted Service to Virgin Media Controlled Service

Virgin Media will deploy/operate its own mobile core network, and full IT stack and interconnect to EE for radio access using a largely standard National Roaming Partner model. The resultant Core Network platform is based on Next Generation Network principles and technology.

The delivery of the Core Network will be phased. which initially will replicate the existing 2G/3G product and later 4G.

In regards to Backhaul, VM provide the Backhaul for MBNL which is the JV company formed by Three and EE.

So as you point out VM already conectivity to many of the sites. In situations where VM does not have their own Fibre Connectivity they will have used other operators but the contracts will be with VM.

[qasdfdsaq]

Spot on this time Mainly because you used the more accurate term of "RAN" instead of "masts". It's good that VM are seeking more independence and will be able to better control what services and features are offered over their service, but ultimately that all requires spectrum, a limited asset and often the main bottleneck for mobile networks, and they still have to rely entirely on EE's spectrum.

That said EE do have the most spectrum of any operator, so it's not inconceivable that VM be able to "rent" dedicated spectrum from them solely for their own users. That IMO would be a pretty interesting development if it ever happens...

---------- Post added at 11:12 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

In situations where VM does not have their own Fibre Connectivity they will have used other operators but the contracts will be with VM.

Not unexpected, but good to know all the same.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Currently VM offers Mobile service as a MVNO with EE. VM owns the customers and these are served by means of a Thin MVNO model in which VM provides the IT stack in support of Billing and EE provides the full Network piece of RAN and mobile Core Network. With mV and mBB traffic passing directly to the PSTN and Internet.

VM is moving to a Thick MVNO in which VM continues to provide the IT stack, albeit refreshed, and now also seeks to provide the Network piece beyond the selected MNO’s RAN. With mV and mBB traffic being handled by VM and passing to the PSTN and Internet. Effectively transitioning from EE Hosted Service to Virgin Media Controlled Service

Virgin Media will deploy/operate its own mobile core network, and full IT stack and interconnect to EE for radio access using a largely standard National Roaming Partner model. The resultant Core Network platform is based on Next Generation Network principles and technology.

The delivery of the Core Network will be phased. which initially will replicate the existing 2G/3G product and later 4G.

In regards to Backhaul, VM provide the Backhaul for MBNL which is the JV company formed by Three and EE.

So as you point out VM already conectivity to many of the sites. In situations where VM does not have their own Fibre Connectivity they will have used other operators but the contracts will be with VM.

Any chance you could translate this into something most of us can understand.

[Pierre]

Basically.

it's like unbundling a mobile network.

RAN, stands for Radio Access Network. VM will be utilising the RAN of EE to reach the customer but everything else behind that will be VM infrastruture.

Asopposed to at the moment where everything is EE infrastructure with a VM badge stuck on it.


There's a bit more to it than that, but that's basically it.

[qasdfdsaq]

The radio access network being the part most people usually associate with a "mobile network" - everything related to actually communication between the mobile phone and the... network. In other words, the parts of the network responsible for making the signal exist. Compared to cable that might be equivalent to the wireless router, cable modem, cable network and UBR/CMTS.

What VM will be taking over in-house is the bit that makes the signal do something useful, like handling phone calls, messages or the internet. The core routers, backbone, and servers in internet speak.

I suppose this now gives VM the ability to STM your mobile phone as well as your cable broadband!