The evidence is overwhelming that unlimited industrial growth is no longer possible

[mertle]

Thats right we maybe in a quandry that economy cant be grown before we consume resources. More we become efficient more resources we consume only way is we told is consume more to grow economies.

Some experts now starting believe this not pratical solution. Only 2 options is reduce the labour hours france looking at 32 hour weeks. In Austria, netherlands and scandinavia more holidays from 6 to 8 weeks now given.

We are at crossroads apparantly the only other is having large people unemployed. which what we find here.

Book which been published this video shows some insight quandry we find ourselves.

http://www.workersoftheworldrelax.org/

[Fawkes]

Mertle, have you been drinking? Your post makes about as much sense as a Japanese instruction manual.

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------

That’s right we maybe in a quandary that our economy can’t be grown without consuming more resources. The more efficient we become the more resources we consume. The only way we are told is consume more to grow our economies.

Some experts are now starting to believe this not a practical solution. The only 2 options are to reduce the labour hours i.e. France is looking at 32 hour weeks. In Austria, the Netherlands and Scandinavia more holidays from 6 to 8 weeks are now given.

We are at crossroads apparently the only other is having large numbers of people unemployed. Which is what we find here.

A Book has been published and this video shows some insights into the quandary we find ourselves in.

FTFY

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Mertle, have you been drinking? Your post makes about as much sense as a Japanese instruction manual.

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------



FTFY

listen to vids mate all will come clear it sounds weird true but all three vids show the reasoning behind it.

Might not explained it well at first but bear with me.

One example was if swapped hummer for smart car although the savings are made its ofset by buying more if you just banked it the banks would give it business to grow.

Economy cannot grow indefinately there evidence the crossroads all ready upon us. Evidence is if we become more efficicient we just consume more products which inturn makes economical growth. Which infact damages the planet over consumes resources (OIL,GAS)

Now what we are told this good but apparantly its not its looks ways to get out recession without Growth. The vid suggest more holidays more time less work. This model being adopted in france and others alternative high unemployment ala UK.

Its about problems world economy how to fix it.

I look it another way we have pot money when money removed it is spent that goes back in the pot. However some harbour it they find ways not to pay tax they hogg it. Banks have to make money to ofset it to make sure consumer spending drives the economy. Problem is creating money this very bad for the economy. So basically world increases productivity and maximise profits to drive economies. We make efficicenty drives such less labour intensive modernisation mechanism. We sack people make workers work longer and harder increase productivity.

Problem then is we force it on public sector to cover welfare loads on scrapheap. Plus problem we not growth wages with demands. The economy grinds to halt as consumerism stops or slows people cant afford the goods. Less need for goods jobs are lost.


Its still not perfect explination but the vids help.

[Fawkes]

I've not seen the videos, I can't at work. I'm not that interested to be honest. This is nothing new, one day the human race will look back on this time and cringe. To think we once relied on digging stuff up out of the ground to produce energy.

Originally Posted by mertle

listen to vids mate all will come clear it sounds weird true but all three vids show the reasoning behind it.........snippety snip snip .

Hey Mertle ,how about some happy news tomorrow

[boroboi]

Originally Posted by Fawkes

I've not seen the videos, I can't at work. I'm not that interested to be honest. This is nothing new, one day the human race will look back on this time and cringe. To think we once relied on digging stuff up out of the ground to produce energy.

Yeah, they'll be saying that when we're back to living in the dark ages

Originally Posted by mertle

Thats right we maybe in a quandry that economy cant be grown before we consume resources. More we become efficient more resources we consume only way is we told is consume more to grow economies.

Some experts now starting believe this not pratical solution. Only 2 options is reduce the labour hours france looking at 32 hour weeks. In Austria, netherlands and scandinavia more holidays from 6 to 8 weeks now given.

We are at crossroads apparantly the only other is having large people unemployed. which what we find here.

Book which been published this video shows some insight quandry we find ourselves.

http://www.workersoftheworldrelax.org/

being six foot tall and weighing fifteen stone, I take exception to that statement.....

btw, three videos are not, IMHO, "overwhelming evidence" - your tendency to hyperbolic polemic is showing again......

[MovedGoalPosts]

Regardless of how this thread started.

The Uk, European, Western, indeed the World economy is based on the idea that each year things will get bigger. But it can't. At a very simplistic viewpoint think of things as a pyramid scheme. Day one I can sell to two people they then sell to another two each, and so on. Eventually everyone has that item and the market stalls. The reality is that the Uk, European, Western, and worlkd economy stalls as we reach saturation. Obtaining raw resources from the planet just compounds that problem as we run out of stuff that we can even convert to stuff that someone wants.

Bottom line for years our economies are founded on a notional, paper, value, rather than tangible assets of gold (how did Mr Brown mnage to sell the UK gold reserves if they meant anything to the economy), and suddenly the world has woken up that this paper actually didn't exist.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Hugh

being six foot tall and weighing fifteen stone, I take exception to that statement.....

sorry hugh large number of people.

martyh the happy news if the model was copied is more free time. 8 weeks holidays. Which would then mean by reducing working hours and meaning jobs is created.

I not sure agree with one them who said wages should be reduced it depeands on who. Bottom to medium pay scales not topper end yes.

Should reduce the MP's sorry martyh new bad news maude pushed through pension scheme which means there pesion gone up...

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/p...=feeds-newsxml

Thanks ROB

this what the vids talking about how to solve the issue.

Originally Posted by mertle

martyh the happy news if the model was copied is more free time. 8 weeks holidays. Which would then mean by reducing working hours and meaning jobs is created.

.

less money earned then ,more bad news

[mertle]

Originally Posted by martyh

less money earned then ,more bad news

Knowing the government and firms no doubt like the austerity scale of pyramid us first instead other way round.

However done properly we should be better off.

The only thing vid did not think off in any depth is this might create leisure industry boom

I already get 41 days annual leave a year (not including bank holidays) - any more would be greedy.....