* News * Politics * Economic policy Ministers admit family debt burden i

[mertle]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...res?CMP=twt_fd

Not looking good the torries want us to get into debt to help prevent private sector going down with public sector. To do it shift the debt of the government to ordinary people to increase debt there hold on mortgages/credit cards etc.

So in effect credit crunch 2.

So this what austerity policy come down to feel its admission they are failing.

Theyre scared we going into the big depression something like the 1930's we need to head it off. To do it by spending our way but they wont do it as it would be egg on there face.

Questions will be undoubtably raised was the cuts too deep too quick personally I think so.

[Taf]

If your household, due to poor financial decisions, was suddenly in debt where the level of interest payable was horrendous, your household would have to suffer cuts to get out of the hole, despite rising prices for necessities.

Borrowing more would only make the situation worse, so the answer would be a short period of severe austerity to minimise interest payments, or a longer period of medium austerity handing over more of your cash to the banks in interest payments.

Originally Posted by mertle

Theyre scared we going into the big depression something like the 1930's we need to head it off. To do it by spending our way but they wont do it as it would be egg on there face.

Spending our way where? Down to the IMF with a begging bowl?

You know, if there is likely to be anything entertaining about the financial mess we're in, and the difficult five years ahead as we get out of that mess, it will be the re-emergence of the loony left with all its ill-conceived, un-costed and batty ideas.

does the predicted figure of £77,000 debt include mortgages ?i assume so and given that is correct i don't think that's bad ,if they don't then it is horrendous

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by mertle

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...res?CMP=twt_fd

Not looking good the torries want us to get into debt to help prevent private sector going down with public sector. To do it shift the debt of the government to ordinary people to increase debt there hold on mortgages/credit cards etc.

So in effect credit crunch 2.

So this what austerity policy come down to feel its admission they are failing.

Theyre scared we going into the big depression something like the 1930's we need to head it off. To do it by spending our way but they wont do it as it would be egg on there face.

Questions will be undoubtably raised was the cuts too deep too quick personally I think so.

They aren't as deep as they will be if the country nearly goes bankrupt (as happened in Ireland and Greece).

[Ignitionnet]

It is indeed a complete mess up.

What they should be doing, of course, is cutting public sector harder and more broadly, reducing rather than increasing taxation and allowing both public and private debt to be deleveraged simultaneously.

Sadly of course the nation is so public sector horny now that we refuse to entertain funding cuts to some things and the Lib Dems and Dave's pretend Tories are so busy trying to be 'progressive' that they're basically doing a Labour-lite.

The cuts were not too deep nor too quick, and it's interesting that for all this concern over cuts I don't remember there being much concern when the expansion in the public sector that they don't really roll back very far was being done. Quite the opposite as I remember all political parties and many people thought it was great.

Feel the pain mertle. For me personally I'm simply lowering my standard of living appropriately to ensure that I do not incur additional debt, indeed I'm actually paying debt off.

The worst part about it is, to be honest, that it will further pressure interest rates to remain unnaturally low, holding inflation higher.

[Osem]

What Mertle seems to forget is that those who lend us the money to fund our spending don't do it out of love and won't keep doing so (or will at least charge a lot more for so doing) unless we can show we're taking this issue seriously. Contrary to what Brown evidently believed, borrowing isn't a bottomless pit and our international credit rating is now under severe pressure. Unlike Joe Soap who runs up a credit card bill and can conveniently walk away if he can't pay, UK PLC can't be seen to do that - certainly without facing very grave consequences for us all. IIRC we're already spending the equivalent of the entire education budget just servicing the interest on our debts!!! Do we really want that amount to increase??? That's the real world and those who still can't accept that we live in it really need to wake up.

http://www.debtbombshell.com/

Originally Posted by Osem

What Mertle seems to forget is that those who lend us the money to fund our spending don't do it out of love and won't keep doing so (or will at least charge a lot more for so doing) unless we can show we're taking this issue seriously. Contrary to what Brown evidently believed, borrowing isn't a bottomless pit and our international credit rating is now under severe pressure. Unlike Joe Soap who runs up a credit card bill and can conveniently walk away if he can't pay, UK PLC can't be seen to do that - certainly without facing very grave consequences for us all. IIRC we're already spending the equivalent of the entire education budget just servicing the interest on out debts!!! Do we really want that amount to increase??? That's the real world and those who still can't accept that we live in it really need to wake up.

That is what is costing us dearly a quick google threw up this

In the first six months of 2010, the debt interest payments were £21.6bn, suggesting an annual cost of around £43bn (3% of GDP)

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/uk...national-debt/

a scary number that will undoubtedly get bigger before it gets smaller .Saving that interest payment or even half of it would go a long way towards restoring sevices that have been cut so the quicker we can get rid of that burden the better imo .

I don't understand why people can't realise that the uk's budget works exactly the same in principle to a house hold budget ,this year i will be using any tax refund i get to reduce or if possible get rid of the majority of my debt ,(i don't have a mortgage so my debt is relatively small)but in doing that i hope to free up more cash to keep in the bank for the lean times i know are just around the corner ...no holidays or big telly for Martyh but i will have the security of no or not much debt

[Osem]

Originally Posted by martyh

That is what is costing us dearly a quick google threw up this



http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/uk...national-debt/

a scary number that will undoubtedly get bigger before it gets smaller .Saving that interest payment or even half of it would go a long way towards restoring sevices that have been cut so the quicker we can get rid of that burden the better imo .

I don't understand why people can't realise that the uk's budget works exactly the same in principle to a house hold budget ,this year i will be using any tax refund i get to reduce or if possible get rid of the majority of my debt ,(i don't have a mortgage so my debt is relatively small)but in doing that i hope to free up more cash to keep in the bank for the lean times i know are just around the corner ...no holidays or big telly for Martyh but i will have the security of no or not much debt

After more than a decade of governmental profligacy, too many people have become used to spending what they don't have and being able to walk away if/when they can't pay and start again. It's not quite that simple for UK PLC to do that and any bail outs will come at massive cost as the Greeks and Irish have found out.

Originally Posted by Osem

After more than a decade of governmental profligacy, too many people have become used to spending what they don't have and being able to walk away if/when they can't pay and start again. It's not quite that simple for UK PLC to do that and any bail outs will come at massive cost as the Greeks and Irish have found out.

exactly ,and if that happens to the UK then people will think the dark ages are back

[mertle]

I not saying dont cut I am saying do it at pace the country can support this slash and burn will get us in worse mess.

Why has the torries let there rich budies off the hook with there debt to taxman.

Not long back Vodaphone was allowed to negate on 6 billion of debt.

That could been 6 billion softening of cuts and why is frontline services going ahead greedy rich people who on staggering wages.

So kick the hell out of the poor/working class while letting there rich friends get away with blue murder not the right way going about the situation.

If we claimed 60% owed from these we would be significantly in less a mess but hell lets look at closed narrow tunnel vision.

There alot been brainwashed to horrendous levels makes feel that this country not proud to live in with all this selfishness atitudes.

There alot balony being peddled by papers to drive witchunts and persacution. In the 40's it was the jews today its the vunarable, disabled, poor and elderly.

Lets be narrow minded while we see the torries bring capitalism to our shores and before you start moaning of american style state.

While you see more and more billionairres cream the money away in the world. While the do this we are all suposed be grateful they put bread on the table with few jobs here and there. These billionairres know what theyre doing to try justify theyre rape of the world finances. They all starting to agree to give charities 50% of theyre wealth, 38 have signed up. Stuff the charties start producing the jobs stop the cuts that maximise profits. Its nice gesture but jobs is whats needed do this stupid government think a profit driven private sector will take the slack.

You already see the signs of these companies moving to cheap low paid nations all due to they wont pay a fair wage.

Mark my words it will get worse until the worlds governments work together against the people.

[Ignitionnet]

With the protestations so far you'd think they already were.

Not actually that far away relatively, the coalition isn't going to do enough, they will bring borrowing back below GDP growth by 2014 according to the OBR. So we will still be accumulating debt, just by then predictions are that debt will be shrinking as a % of GDP.

By this time of course depending on which measure you look at the UK's debt and unfunded liabilities then add up to anything from around 80% of GDP to 400% of GDP.

Government and individuals lived beyond their means over the past decade. Government is going to, in a small way, start working towards living within its means, individuals have to do likewise.

Originally Posted by mertle

I not saying dont cut I am saying do it at pace the country can support this slash and burn will get us in worse mess..........snippety snip snip.

The problem when you have so many of the public refusing to accept that the good times of unlimited credit are over and refusing to give up a lifestyle they cannot afford and was paid for on credit they will never accept the idea that they cannot have it anymore .The longer it takes to get the loan payments down the longer we will have to have reduced services .
I have posted a link showing the interest payments for the first half of 2010 ,21 billion ,that is only the interest for half of the year ,it does not include any actual repayments of borrowed money the sooner we get rid of that the better for UK PLC

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by mertle

I not saying dont cut I am saying do it at pace the country can support this slash and burn will get us in worse mess.

Why has the torries let there rich budies off the hook with there debt to taxman.

Not long back Vodaphone was allowed to negate on 6 billion of debt.

That could been 6 billion softening of cuts and why is frontline services going ahead greedy rich people who on staggering wages.

So kick the hell out of the poor/working class while letting there rich friends get away with blue murder not the right way going about the situation.

If we claimed 60% owed from these we would be significantly in less a mess but hell lets look at closed narrow tunnel vision.

Ah the #UKUncut spiel.

Vodafone didn't have a debt of 6 billion, that figure was never actually the case. The tax man got a billion out of Vodafone and were potentially entitled to nothing, Vodafone paid tax on that income elsewhere in the EU, the UK didn't fancy the trip through the EU courts to try and justify a part of the UK's tax code which is potentially incompatible with EU law.

The rest 'owed', as always with my responses to UKUncut, if you can demonstrate that companies have evaded tax, which is illegal, you should be going to HMRC.

http://www.iea.org.uk/publications/r...eb-publication

UK Uncut has attacked Vodafone for not paying £6 billion of tax on the profits made by its German operations. However, it is not – and never can be – a principle of tax law that a company should pay both UK tax and German tax on the activities of the German parts of the business. At issue is a much smaller amount of tax for which the company might be liable representing the difference between the UK and German tax that is due on profits made in Germany. This is a hotly debated area of tax law and European law and HMRC and the company have reached a compromise.

No developed country could develop a corporate tax system that taxed profits twice in the way UK Uncut are suggesting should happen in the case of Vodafone.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

With the protestations so far you'd think they already were.

Not actually that far away relatively, the coalition isn't going to do enough, they will bring borrowing back below GDP growth by 2014 according to the OBR. So we will still be accumulating debt, just by then predictions are that debt will be shrinking as a % of GDP.

By this time of course depending on which measure you look at the UK's debt and unfunded liabilities then add up to anything from around 80% of GDP to 400% of GDP.

Government and individuals lived beyond their means over the past decade. Government is going to, in a small way, start working towards living within its means, individuals have to do likewise.

Quite. It always seems strange to me that those who remind us of the vast underpaid armies of workers in India, China etc. argue that our people deserve to be better off but don't seem to accept that we're in competiton with those nations. Unless we become more competitive they'll continue taking our jobs and the wealth that goes with them. Things may be bad now but unless HMG gets to grips with our debt things are going to get a whole lot harder for us all.

As regards UK Uncut - I was listening to a spokesman for them a few weeks back banging on about the banks etc. and setting out how the UK's problems could be solved by getting tough on them. When faced with a financial expert it soon became clear he really didn't have a clue what he was talking about but of course there are plenty out there who believe what they want to hear and buy into the simplistic nonsense these people talk......