students to miss Sats

papa smurf · 09-05-2010, 15:35

Tens of thousands of primary school children are expected to miss their Sats tomorrow as a boycott of the tests kicks off across the country.

Rising numbers of schools in England have confirmed they will be joining a boycott, with headteachers at more than 1,000 schools already informing their local authorities they will not be administering the tests.

At its annual conference in Liverpool last weekend, the NAHT claimed its members were being threatened with the prospect of having their pay docked for taking part.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0nRVrC7n9

i was always under the impression that heads and teachers alike where paid to do there job not dictate what they believe is right or wrong in the education system and dictate Government policy .
or am i missing something here ?

punky · 09-05-2010, 15:47

I'm not impressed that students are being used as pawns in the teachers' politics.

I'm not that up on SATs these days. Would missing them mean them any kind of hardship for them in the future?

andycollins · 09-05-2010, 16:05

Yes you are missing something, in fact a lot. SATs test have been used over the years to score political points and have become less and less to do with the educating children in a stimulating and creative way, rather as a means of forcing children (and teachers) to jump through hoops/pass exams. Headteachers and teachers realise that they are accountable and that there has to be a a way of measuring a child's educational progress, indeed every school has to already have a rigourous system of continual assessment in place. The unions have been attempting to enter dialogue for up to six years now, but so far they have refused to adapt or change the process despite the children/teachers of Scotland, Wales and NI ditching these test years ago. Teachers are paid to teach and the vast majority of them do this essential and demanding job well, but they are not unthinking "sausage factory" mentality workers, they are continually encouraged to inovate, stimulate and improve their practice, not simply blindly follow orders. In order for this boycott to come about has taken these same free thinking people years to make a stand. Anyone who has had an eleven year old go through the system of SATs know that the pressure to perform has become about statistics and not children. If you read the Mail you will get the impression we should all be good little workers and see education that is "done to someone " not "with them."

Read this if you genuinely want to learn more, it's a little less black and white than you may think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8623363.stm

---------- Post added at 16:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:03 ----------

No, they are assessed again before Christmas in every secondary school. Children in the UK are the most tested children in Europe!

Taf · 09-05-2010, 16:08

I regard exams of any sort as a measure of the teachers' abilities, and not just the student's comprehension. Maybe teachers are afraid of being shown up?

**Hugh** · 09-05-2010, 16:09

andy, you did't answer papa's question - are the teachers/heads not legally obliged, as part of their job description, to carry out the tests?

andycollins · 09-05-2010, 16:16

Despite my previous message, I do agree that it is too late that the SATs are being boycotted this year, children and teachers have worked to hard to simply not do them. I also agree that this has political motivation and and the timing in ralation to the General Election is clearly designed to bring the debate to a head and possible a conclusion, but faced with a situation that historically has not been even open for discussion from the government, I can't see another way of at least forcing whatever government we get to at least examine the possibility that the present format of testing at 11 is flawed and can be improved.

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

Yes they are. We should all carry on as we are then. The people who are the "experts" should be dismissed and government official should replace them... or there should be debate about how to improve the assessment procedures would better serve the needs of the children, employers and still require a commitment of accountability from the teaching profession. Personally I would like to think that government and the teachers ultimately want the same thing.

Shown up... for what?

papa smurf · 09-05-2010, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by andycollins

Despite my previous message, I do agree that it is too late that the SATs are being boycotted this year, children and teachers have worked to hard to simply not do them. I also agree that this has political motivation and and the timing in ralation to the General Election is clearly designed to bring the debate to a head and possible a conclusion, but faced with a situation that historically has not been even open for discussion from the government, I can't see another way of at least forcing whatever government we get to at least examine the possibility that the present format of testing at 11 is flawed and can be improved.

ballot box comes to mind-- you vote for a party that shares your views and then await the outcome of the election ,not descend into anarchy and i fail to see how this is a matter for the unions .

andycollins · 09-05-2010, 16:27

Anarchy!! We are talking about educational discussion and one aspect of education, namely assessment of 11 years old. Teachers aren't going to be marching on parliament elbow patch next to elbow patch!! Lol Listen at the end of the dayI accept everyones point of view and realise that inevitably anything that involves education is going to be in someway political. I don't think that boycotting the SATs is ideal for anyone, but if ultimately if the assessment procedure can be improveD (because even the government) acknowledges this, as they scrapped the Science SAT at the end of Y6 last year and SATs for 14yr olds 2 years ago) Then that can only be the sign of a forward thinking government and a progressive education system.

09-05-2010, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by andycollins

Anarchy!! We are talking about educational discussion and one aspect of education, namely assessment of 11 years old. Teachers aren't going to be marching on parliament elbow patch next to elbow patch!! Lol Listen at the end of the dayI accept everyones point of view and realise that inevitably anything that involves education is going to be in someway political. I don't think that boycotting the SATs is ideal for anyone, but if ultimately if the assessment procedure can be improveD (because even the government) acknowledges this, as they scrapped the Science SAT at the end of Y6 last year and SATs for 14yr olds 2 years ago) Then that can only be the sign of a forward thinking government and a progressive education system.

so why are the teachers boycotting this years tests if the government have acknowledged room for improvement ?

andycollins · 09-05-2010, 16:42

Because they want to make sure that the system is "improved" soon, so that they "grasp the nettle", the best time to do this has to be at the start of a new governement. Once a government has been in power for a reasonable amount of time they are always open to ya/boo politics, they will inevitable be accused of either (percieved lowering of educational standards or of government meddling)

09-05-2010, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by andycollins

Because they want to make sure that the system is "improved" soon, so that they "grasp the nettle", the best time to do this has to be at the start of a new governement. Once a government has been in power for a reasonable amount of time they are always open to ya/boo politics, they will inevitable be accused of either (percieved lowering of educational standards or of government meddling)

i don't think that they are doing themselves any favours though ,the timing would seem to be a little bit off .surely the best time to address this issue would be WHEN we have a new government ,as it stands they just look like they are spoiling for a fight and since the tory policy is to replace the 11yr test with one at 14 anyway what's their problem ?

**Maggy** · 09-05-2010, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

so why are the teachers boycotting this years tests if the government have acknowledged room for improvement ?

Because no suggestions have been forthcoming..and I'm not defending the actions of the teachers boycotting these SATS tests.It's very unfair to do this to children who have been 'practising' to pass them for months.

The trouble is that the government likes SATs tests because they make it look like they are doing something about education and they can be made into league tables.

The SATs for 14 year olds were a waste of time.There is no need for tests in Year 9 with students about to choose options for GCSEs.It meant they were being externally examined 3 years in a row.I also never thought that SATs tests were particularly effective during the earlier years at primary education either as children develop at differing rates when they are so much younger(I'm coming to the conclusion that children should start school later anyway).

Negotiation should be the way..not boycotting.

---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

i don't think that they are doing themselves any favours though ,the timing would seem to be a little bit off .surely the best time to address this issue would be WHEN we have a new government ,as it stands they just look like they are spoiling for a fight and since the tory policy is to replace the 11yr test with one at 14 anyway what's their problem ?

Big mistake on the Tories part because unless they are GCSE orientated I fail to see how any test at 14 can be of any use to the students.

andycollins · 09-05-2010, 17:10

Agreed, teachers are always open to this arguement and I don't think that any worker in any profession could be accused of good timing when it comes to an issue that has got to the stage that a boycott is a real possibility. I think the real anxiety with those not actually involved in the debate is fuelled by the evocative word "scrapping," it not only brings with it the connotation that this is a "fight" but also the perception that that the "scrapping" will lead to the creation of a vaccuum that will be filled by "beardy" teachers who think that children should float through the education system, without accountablity or rigor. That teachers will breeze in at 9am and leave with the children at 3:30 without a care in the world safe in the knowledge that they will not be sacked and their long holidays is their right. The system has to be rigorous and have at it's heart assessment that lead to future planning and quality teaching. I am one of those. Teachers to some extent enjoyed this luxury in the 60s and 70s, but slowly the barometer has swung too far, to the point where politician are increasingly using educational data as a political football to score points of each other an not as a tool for assessing the progress of individual pupils and the performance of individual schools.

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The introduction of single level testing and a version of Assessing Pupils Progress to ascertain the child level before taking them would be a step in the right direction. That alongside removing published league tables would help.

09-05-2010, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Because no suggestions have been forthcoming..and I'm not defending the actions of the teachers boycotting these SATS tests.It's very unfair to do this to children who have been 'practising' to pass them for months.

The trouble is that the government likes SATs tests because they make it look like they are doing something about education and they can be made into league tables.

The SATs for 14 year olds were a waste of time.There is no need for tests in Year 9 with students about to choose options for GCSEs.It meant they were being externally examined 3 years in a row.I also never thought that SATs tests were particularly effective during the earlier years at primary education either as children develop at differing rates when they are so much younger(I'm coming to the conclusion that children should start school later anyway).

Negotiation should be the way..not boycotting.

---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

Big mistake on the Tories part because unless they are GCSE orientated I fail to see how any test at 14 can be of any use to the students.

i agree with that ,it does seem pointless to re-introduce the test for 14 yr olds as that is when they are choosing options for their future education ,which having just gone through that is quite stressfull enough for the child ..and the parent

Julian · 09-05-2010, 17:25

My son starts his sats tomorrow.

We had a meeting at the school and the staff told us that while they were not in favour of the sats, they were not prepared to disadvantage the children who had been preparing for the tests.

The high school my son is moving up to streams the pupils for English and Maths. The sats results form the basis for that streaming to enable pupils to work with others of similar ability.
Whilst I appreciate they may have concerns,the refusal of some staff to administer these tests is a selfish, thoughtless act imo.