Natural disaster made in to man made catastrophe

[danielf]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7406023.stm

Words fail me.

It's been two weeks since the cyclone struck. At least 100,000 people died. A few million are homeless. The risk of disease is mounting by the day, and the death toll from disease could dwarf that from the cyclone. Yet, the junta is still refusing to let aid workers in. They are happy to accept aid, but not the pesky workers that come with it. There's tons of aid sitting in warehouses ready to be shipped. France and the US have ships carrying tons of aid sitting just outside Burmese waters. The junta however, would rather have a million people die than let the world see just how brutal this regime is.

[Tezcatlipoca]

It really is shocking

[punky]

Originally Posted by danielf

The junta however, would rather have a million people die than let the world see just how brutal this regime is.

Its not that they are are worried about how the world sees the regime that worries them, its that that if foreigners are allowed in, they'll convince the population how good they have it outside of Burma and cause the people to revolt. As they say, governments should be scared of their citizens, but in Burma, with absolute control, they don't have that.

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

Originally Posted by punky

Its not that they are are worried about how the world sees the regime that worries them, its that that if foreigners are allowed in, they'll convince the population how good they have it outside of Burma and cause the people to revolt. As they say, governments should be scared of their citizens, but in Burma, with absolute control, they don't have that.

I think there is very much the view that the regime will be toppled if foreigners are let in. Firstly as you say the people in there will find out what its like on the outside, be secondly the regime is not humanitarian and if evidence of that gets out action would be taken

[greencreeper]

Park a few big ships off the coast. Prep a few thousand troops. Tell the government - we're helping your people, or we're levelling your military establishments and then helping your people. Which is it?

We are serious about our humanitarian commitments, yeah?

Originally Posted by greencreeper

Park a few big ships off the coast. Prep a few thousand troops. Tell the government - we're helping your people, or we're levelling your military establishments and then helping your people. Which is it?

We are serious about our humanitarian commitments, yeah?

It is horrible, but if they will not let us help, then we are obliged to let them cope on their own

- yes that is appalling, but if the alternative is the invasion you presume, which scenario merits the worst fallout, politically - it may actually benefit the people in Borneo to think they have to sort it out, themselves - rather than be 'rescued' with conditions ???

[Osem]

Yes - a terrible tragedy made worse by self serving people. Unauthorised air drops may not be the ideal solution but I think that'd be the best way right now.

If it came to it, America would bomb them at the drop of a hat, without a second thought. Burmese children 'facing death'

[tweetypie/8]

Originally Posted by danielf

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7406023.stm

Words fail me.

It's been two weeks since the cyclone struck. At least 100,000 people died. A few million are homeless. The risk of disease is mounting by the day, and the death toll from disease could dwarf that from the cyclone. Yet, the junta is still refusing to let aid workers in. They are happy to accept aid, but not the pesky workers that come with it. There's tons of aid sitting in warehouses ready to be shipped. France and the US have ships carrying tons of aid sitting just outside Burmese waters. The junta however, would rather have a million people die than let the world see just how brutal this regime is.

its a f...... disgrace.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by homealone

It is horrible, but if they will not let us help, then we are obliged to let them cope on their own

I disagree, and there are provisions for intervention in the UN rule book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_to_protect

http://www.responsibilitytoprotect.org/

- yes that is appalling, but if the alternative is the invasion you presume, which scenario merits the worst fallout, politically - it may actually benefit the people in Burma to think they have to sort it out, themselves - rather than be 'rescued' with conditions ???

The people of Burma tried to sort it out just a few months ago. They got shot at. They tried in 1988. Troops fired at the crowds. 3,000 people died.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7012158.stm

We invaded Iraq, and when no Weapons of Mass Destruction were found, regime change was quoted as the reason for intervention. If the international community is serious about human rights, then this is the time to show it imo.

[seaofpepsicola]

surely this is a greater reason more so than 911 war ..to go in and take the government down..why don't they..because they have no oil...

[danielf]

Originally Posted by seaofpepsicola

..why don't they..because they have no oil...

They do...

Originally Posted by danielf

I disagree, and there are provisions for intervention in the UN rule book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_to_protect

http://www.responsibilitytoprotect.org/



The people of Burma tried to sort it out just a few months ago. They got shot at. They tried in 1988. Troops fired at the crowds. 3,000 people died.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/7012158.stm

We invaded Iraq, and when no Weapons of Mass Destruction were found, regime change was quoted as the reason for intervention. If the international community is serious about human rights, then this is the time to show it imo.

In a way I'm glad you disagree, I thought very hard before stating my opinion, but still feel somewhat ambivalent.

The R2P agenda is very laudable & I wouldn't disagree with its main tenets one little bit.

The problem I had was that, as you pointed out, the 'situation' in Burma is one of long standing, the cyclone has only made that worse.

My opinion was stated on the premise that if the junta in Burma won't allow international aid in the face of a natural disaster, then in the short term we appear to have only two choices - somehow force them to accept the aid offered, or withdraw the offer....

Longer term, of course we should continue to seek a solution to the overall troubles in Burma, but tragically that doesn't address their immediate need, as I personally cannot see the use of force in this particular case as viable or if it was, capable of being done fast enough to provide the help people need right now ....

Originally Posted by greencreeper

...Prep a few thousand troops....

Oh yeah? Which warzone do we pull them from then?

What is happening in burma is heartbreaking for the people involved and disgusting at a regime level. That said it is not the place of the rest of the world to tell that country how to conduct it's affairs and for those shouting for armed intervention i take it they will be joining the forces soon to make it easier to do it should the UK be that bloody stupid. While this tradegy is hard to watch and seems to have hit a few people the burmese junta for years have been waging a campaign of extermination on a group within burma with little or nothing being said so mass murder is hardly new to this lovely group of people.